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April 26 2024 7.55pm

Alan Shearer new Englan manager

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 14 Jul 16 12.16pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by OknotOK

It's about coaching and identity, rather than players being reluctant to risk injury or only selecting players from the top 4.

Coaching is at such a poor standard in this country - from the very youngest levels of football development - and the FA just doesn't improve it. And the premier league is too focused on commercial success without the damage that can do to the development of competitive young English/British talent.

Even when we do have good young talent (Kane, Alli, Walker, Rose, Smalling, Sterling, etc.) we still fail to actually turn that into a coherent strategy for success. Roy Hodgson had 4 games in a major european tournament and still didn't know his best side by the end of it.


Hmm, yes they would like us to think that it was about coaching. That neatly switches attention away from the club over country ethos that has held back our national side for years. It has meant £millions being pumped into the youth game and an endless stream of talent stepping onto the conveyor belt of... the lower leagues and the subs bench. Another obvious problem.

However, players like the ones you cite have forced their way passed expensive overseas ready-mades into first team premiership games... only to be played out of position or when unfit when selected for the national side in order to satisfy the dictates of a few elite clubs and powerful sponsors.

The question is not about coaching, although that always needs addressing. It is about the corruptive control by a handful of vested interests that somehow do not dominate other leagues. How on earth have the Spanish managed to have the best league on the planet without sacrificing their national team? We have the second best league with an abundance of talent which, if properly channelled, should achieve a success ratio equivalent to the Germans. That we constantly fail in that department is not so much about grass roots nurturing but what we do with what comes out at the other end of the sausage machine.

 

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 14 Jul 16 12.26pm Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

Hmm, yes they would like us to think that it was about coaching. That neatly switches attention away from the club over country ethos that has held back our national side for years. It has meant £millions being pumped into the youth game and an endless stream of talent stepping onto the conveyor belt of... the lower leagues and the subs bench. Another obvious problem.

However, players like the ones you cite have forced their way passed expensive overseas ready-mades into first team premiership games... only to be played out of position or when unfit when selected for the national side in order to satisfy the dictates of a few elite clubs and powerful sponsors.

The question is not about coaching, although that always needs addressing. It is about the corruptive control by a handful of vested interests that somehow do not dominate other leagues. How on earth have the Spanish managed to have the best league on the planet without sacrificing their national team? We have the second best league with an abundance of talent which, if properly channelled, should achieve a success ratio equivalent to the Germans. That we constantly fail in that department is not so much about grass roots nurturing but what we do with what comes out at the other end of the sausage machine.

Think we're going to have to disagree on this one. I accept there is an element of club over country (same with the fans), but none of the players I mentioned were played out of position (the closest being Kane asked to take set pieces). They just underperformed.

Sterling being picked while having not had a great season is an example of the preference for big 4/5/6 players I agree, but although possibly the worst performer, he was far from the only one. Wilshere was picked when unfit (and I fundamentally disagreed with the decision to take him), but he barely played so can't be blamed for the calamitous campaign. Nor is their any guarantee if Danny Drinkwater had been selected in his place (who was the person dropped and not one of the big names) it would have made any difference.

I've known quite a few from abroad who have come in and taught youth football in their spare time and have been astounded and the paucity of the coaching at grassroots level.

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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View lankygit's Profile lankygit Flag Lincoln 14 Jul 16 1.31pm Send a Private Message to lankygit Add lankygit as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

Doesn't matter who it is; nothing will change.

Elite clubs will continue to dominate selection regardless of form, fitness or fitness for position.

Players will happily bow out early in order to reduce the risk of injury, ensure they have a full lavishly expensive holiday, are available from the opening game to maximise play bonuses and - again - keep their elite paymasters happy.

The pattern will continue. Win every qualifying game; FA gets lucrative sponsorship deal for summer Finals; players suddenly "forget" how to play and what they have practised game after game; ignominious "shock" exit in the knock-out stage; manager falls on sword.

I agree with most of what you say, silvertop, but payment to the players is not a factor.
The players set up their own charity about 10 years ago, whereby their match fees go to good causes.
As far as I know it is still ongoing.

 


Is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour? [Link]

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 15 Jul 16 1.47pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by lankygit

I agree with most of what you say, silvertop, but payment to the players is not a factor.
The players set up their own charity about 10 years ago, whereby their match fees go to good causes.
As far as I know it is still ongoing.


You are correct and I was mistaken in what I said. I also think England players are the lowest paid of all the "big" nations and do donate all those sums to charity.

However, I am not sure they also donate the bonus payments from getting capped on their personal sports wear endorsements which dwarf those relatively tiny wages? And those companies seem to have a lot of clout in this country. Thus, could it be that a clearly un(match)fit Wilshire played at the insistence of Nike?

There is much we do not know...

 

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View regal_eagle's Profile regal_eagle Flag somewhere 15 Jul 16 1.57pm Send a Private Message to regal_eagle Add regal_eagle as a friend

Shearer should be in charge of designing the shirts. That should at least distract from the awful football England play.

 

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