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Jon Moss

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 08 Oct 16 11.38am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Why do you constantly repeat the same argument?

Saying things over and over again won't wear any of us down or change our opinion of Moss or Clattenburg.

I am a qualified referee and have a very close friend that is also fully qualified. Both of us agree that Moss and Clattenburg are inconsistent in the way they apply the laws. Both have ego problems although Moss' is to a lesser degree, but he has fitness issues and regularly makes decisions from too far away from the incident and appears to guess.

Please don't respond with the same tired arguments and mantras that you usually resort to.

My father taught me that it was noble to stick to your guns, but when everyone else disagrees with you, maybe it's time to re-evaluate your position and rethink it.

You are so out of touch on this matter as you have painted yourself into a corner and your credibility is less than zero.

Edited by Hoof Hearted (08 Oct 2016 11.30am)

With respect when posters on here come up with the same arguments as part of their pilloring of referees then of course I am only going to respond in similar fashion.For avoidance of doubt, I also qualified as a referee albeit some while ago.

As for "Tired arguments" perhaps you should have aimed your 'Fire' at those in the 'Anti-Referee' camp.As this is a forum for debate, I am entitled to respond to the 'Charges'

Finally, I don't give a jot what you have concluded about my "Credibility". You are clearly under the mis-apprehension that I actually care about the negatives you hurl in my direction.

Edited by Willo (08 Oct 2016 11.40am)

 

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citizensmudge Flag midlands 08 Oct 16 11.49am

Originally posted by Nobbybm

Seriously? If any contact had been made in that challenge then there is no way Jagielka would've been unmarked/unharmed in any way!

How do you know that then mate,seriously? Ive been kicked in the head on quite a few occasions challenging for a loose ball and while I had my nose broken twice ive also got up plenty of times without a scratch on me. Just because you think you know doesn't mean you do. Jagielka actually snaps his head back himself at the same time he puts his hands up,its a natural reflex in that situation.How do you unequivocally know that standing in the same position as Moss it wouldn't have looked like Delaneys foot caught Jagielka when he pulled his head back? You f@cking don't,just like all the others on here swinging their dicks about.Willo may well be wrong about Clattenburg but this particular argument has nothing to do with that does it.Willo is imo one of the few who understands that this incident is open to interpretation.The high % of Everton fans will say he got it right until a similar situation costs them,and guess what a similar proportion of Palace fans are screaming foul play.Surprising,hardly.As I said before,unless Moss comes out and explains the reasons for his decision making then its just pure conjecture on what he got wrong and why.

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 08 Oct 16 11.56am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by citizensmudge

How do you know that then mate,seriously? Ive been kicked in the head on quite a few occasions challenging for a loose ball and while I had my nose broken twice ive also got up plenty of times without a scratch on me. Just because you think you know doesn't mean you do. Jagielka actually snaps his head back himself at the same time he puts his hands up,its a natural reflex in that situation.How do you unequivocally know that standing in the same position as Moss it wouldn't have looked like Delaneys foot caught Jagielka when he pulled his head back? You f@cking don't,just like all the others on here swinging their dicks about.Willo may well be wrong about Clattenburg but this particular argument has nothing to do with that does it.Willo is imo one of the few who understands that this incident is open to interpretation.The high % of Everton fans will say he got it right until a similar situation costs them,and guess what a similar proportion of Palace fans are screaming foul play.Surprising,hardly.As I said before,unless Moss comes out and explains the reasons for his decision making then its just pure conjecture on what he got wrong and why.

Referees are contractually not allowed to speak to the media so they don't have an opportunity to defend themselves.

 

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View Helmet46's Profile Helmet46 Flag Croydon 08 Oct 16 11.57am Send a Private Message to Helmet46 Add Helmet46 as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

With respect when posters on here come up with the same arguments as part of their pilloring of referees then of course I am only going to respond in similar fashion.For avoidance of doubt, I also qualified as a referee albeit some while ago.

As for "Tired arguments" perhaps you should have aimed your 'Fire' at those in the 'Anti-Referee' camp.As this is a forum for debate, I am entitled to respond to the 'Charges'

Finally, I don't give a jot what you have concluded about my "Credibility". You are clearly under the mis-apprehension that I actually care about the negatives you hurl in my direction.

Edited by Willo (08 Oct 2016 11.40am)

Everyone's a referee (yawn) which means that we all understand the laws, their application and the stresses of the game - with abuse hurled from all directions. The problem is that any errors you made when reffing little Mark in the U8's don't readily antagonise huge swathes of people and potentially have financial repercussions.
I get that mistakes are made, vision is impaired etc BUT for top flight refs - like your b/f or Mr Moss - to be consistently inconsistent and then with a general perception of favouritism towards the bigger teams - it does seem to go beyond one team moaning. And, going full circle, that is why there needs to be technology and proper examination of performance with meaningful punishment. Hit them in the pocket with a proper review - you'll be surprised how quickly they'll improve.

 

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citizensmudge Flag midlands 08 Oct 16 12.03pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Why do you constantly repeat the same argument?

Saying things over and over again won't wear any of us down or change our opinion of Moss or Clattenburg.

I am a qualified referee and have a very close friend that is also fully qualified. Both of us agree that Moss and Clattenburg are inconsistent in the way they apply the laws. Both have ego problems although Moss' is to a lesser degree, but he has fitness issues and regularly makes decisions from too far away from the incident and appears to guess.

Please don't respond with the same tired arguments and mantras that you usually resort to.

My father taught me that it was noble to stick to your guns, but when everyone else disagrees with you, maybe it's time to re-evaluate your position and rethink it.

You are so out of touch on this matter as you have painted yourself into a corner and your credibility is less than zero.

Edited by Hoof Hearted (08 Oct 2016 11.30am)

Sorry Hoof I agree with Willo about the Moss incident and that's what this thread is about unless I mis-read the title.Just because a group of people disagree with you doesn't mean you are wrong,this whole bloody incident is about personal interpretation regardless of how strongly you feel.Incidently,my old man taught me that if a gang of lads from the year above me at school started bullying me because there were more of them knock the biggest one out and see what the rest do.

 

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citizensmudge Flag midlands 08 Oct 16 12.05pm

Originally posted by Willo

Referees are contractually not allowed to speak to the media so they don't have an opportunity to defend themselves.

My point Willow,keep up old boy

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 08 Oct 16 12.06pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Helmet46

Everyone's a referee (yawn) which means that we all understand the laws, their application and the stresses of the game - with abuse hurled from all directions. The problem is that any errors you made when reffing little Mark in the U8's don't readily antagonise huge swathes of people and potentially have financial repercussions.
I get that mistakes are made, vision is impaired etc BUT for top flight refs - like your b/f or Mr Moss - to be consistently inconsistent and then with a general perception of favouritism towards the bigger teams - it does seem to go beyond one team moaning. And, going full circle, that is why there needs to be technology and proper examination of performance with meaningful punishment. Hit them in the pocket with a proper review - you'll be surprised how quickly they'll improve.

There is a robust system for measuring Select Group performance over the season. Each Premier League match is evaluated by a former senior referee who scrutinises every decision using the match footage and ProZone to measure the officials’ technical performance. Former players and managers (Match Delegates) assess the accuracy and consistency of decision making and their management of the match.

Fitness Issues have been brought up. The PL referees attend a 'Training Camp' twice a month and not only do these address physical performance they also entail matters pertaining to technical issues.

 

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View Helmet46's Profile Helmet46 Flag Croydon 08 Oct 16 12.13pm Send a Private Message to Helmet46 Add Helmet46 as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

There is a robust system for measuring Select Group performance over the season. Each Premier League match is evaluated by a former senior referee who scrutinises every decision using the match footage and ProZone to measure the officials’ technical performance. Former players and managers (Match Delegates) assess the accuracy and consistency of decision making and their management of the match.

Fitness Issues have been brought up. The PL referees attend a 'Training Camp' twice a month and not only do these address physical performance they also entail matters pertaining to technical issues.


I get that but I don't see any significant penalties imposed. Whilst I wanted Mr Moss benched for a while - due to a number of errors in that match - I do think that consistent underperformance should incur proper financial penalties. I think we all agree that there are too many errors - you feel that's normal and human whereas I think some of it is more cynical and should be adddresed more robustly or technology used.
I suspect we will never agree on this, so I will gracefully bow out of the discussion and, ironically and you may find somewhat amusingly, get ready to go and ref a game!

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 08 Oct 16 12.18pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Helmet46


I get that but I don't see any significant penalties imposed. Whilst I wanted Mr Moss benched for a while - due to a number of errors in that match - I do think that consistent underperformance should incur proper financial penalties. I think we all agree that there are too many errors - you feel that's normal and human whereas I think some of it is more cynical and should be adddresed more robustly or technology used.
I suspect we will never agree on this, so I will gracefully bow out of the discussion and, ironically and you may find somewhat amusingly, get ready to go and ref a game!

My view is if a referee fails consistently to meet the required standard then he should be dropped from the list.Happened to Stuart Attwell !

 

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Hoof Hearted 08 Oct 16 12.20pm

Originally posted by citizensmudge

Sorry Hoof I agree with Willo about the Moss incident and that's what this thread is about unless I mis-read the title.Just because a group of people disagree with you doesn't mean you are wrong,this whole bloody incident is about personal interpretation regardless of how strongly you feel.Incidently,my old man taught me that if a gang of lads from the year above me at school started bullying me because there were more of them knock the biggest one out and see what the rest do.

We're not talking about bullying or the need for talk of playground violence here.

All I am saying to Willo and anyone else for that matter, that there is no point repeating an argument over and over again in pursuit of "winning" an argument.

There comes a point in every debate where it is futile to carry on because of entrenchment.

I believe we reached that point days ago on this thread.

 

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View Helmet46's Profile Helmet46 Flag Croydon 08 Oct 16 12.25pm Send a Private Message to Helmet46 Add Helmet46 as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

We're not talking about bullying or the need for talk of playground violence here.

All I am saying to Willo and anyone else for that matter, that there is no point repeating an argument over and over again in pursuit of "winning" an argument.

There comes a point in every debate where it is futile to carry on because of entrenchment.

I believe we reached that point days ago on this thread.

You're right - probably my fault as I opened it up again this morning. Although Willo and I were discussing quite amicably I thought.

 

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Hoof Hearted 08 Oct 16 12.30pm

Originally posted by Helmet46

You're right - probably my fault as I opened it up again this morning. Although Willo and I were discussing quite amicably I thought.

You've got more patience than me Helmet!

... no need to apologise either, it's up to you who you converse with.

 

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