Given the two starring roles (boss and union rep, equally lampooned)were both played by the great Peter Sellers,I think it would be a compliment to be put up for it,Nick...Maybe Cucking could do the Terry Thomas awful personnel manager character

Edited by legaleagle (30 Nov 2016 10.12pm)

As a long suffering and captive commuter, here's my view.

1. Southern Rail are unable to fulfil their timetable obligations as they don't have enough drivers. And they rely on those they have got to do overtime.

2. The union - who I originally sympathised with - have painted themselves into a corner. There are no negotiations left to be had with Southern. They are just embarrassing themselves now. 30 people outside Brighton station on their picket line last week when the weather was ok. No presence at all the next day when it was cold and wet...w***ers.

3. Southern are an odious company. Their industrial relations skills are non-existant. Launching a PR scheme encouraging the travelling public to vent their anger at union workers being a prime example.They are also dishonest in what they tell their customers - on a daily basis. Their CEO, Charles Horton is the original ' Specialist in Failure. How he has kept his job is a total mystery.

4. The government have granted a £20m kitty to sort the mess out - well, how's that money being spent ? Things are getting worse by the day !

5. Daily cancellations and short trains are causing serious overcrowding both at stations and on trains. It's a miracle there hasn't been an accident - so much for the unions caring about our safety.

So, to conclude - I would happily line up Horton and Cash, one behind the other, and shoot them both with the same bullet.

Old, Ungifted and White

I worked in HR for a TOC for many years. I will offer only facts not theories and I will let people make their own mind up.

TOC's aim is to operate DOO over the whole network. They want rid of guards. At the moment most trains need two staff on board to run, if one of 2 isn't available that train gets cancelled. It makes it financially appealing to get rid of the need for a 2nd person. The way to do that is to take away their safety critical role. I sat in a meeting where a boss said he wanted rid of guards, but the "fxcking liberals" won't allow it because of the DDA (disability discrimination act). No guards mean no wheelchair access.
Guards are trained in several safety procedures. The company I worked for tried to get these removed... so it could get rid. They instead wanted a small team of "train managers" to go round collecting revenue. We couldn't get this thru... getting someone to sign off something that makes the railway less safe is tricky. Our CEO had been in court over Paddington rail crash (I think) and was reluctant to put his name to it. We also encountered problems with the RSSB. We found them very difficult to deal with. My company then decided to hire a new CEO. This CEO had contacts with RSSB and had a good working relationship with the DfT. This CEO now sits on the board of the RSSB. He now has the power to push through the changes.

The one thing I will say. This is driven by DfT. A senior DfT employee went rogue at a meeting and let slip that he wanted to crush the union. My old boss went mental. They didn't want the unions warned. The changes will make the railway less safe... how much they do is subjective. Passenger numbers have doubled and cutting safety staff by 50% at the same time was a big ask. For us the RSSB was the big problem, but they seemed to have sorted it.

My opinion. Guards and drivers are right... the company know it. Anything that makes the railway less safe is going to be a hard sell. Southern will try dirty tricks, they will tell managers to go "hard" on staff. Southern will try to use media to water down changes. I've sat in meetings where I've heard top managers tell middle management to target union reps. I don't think the guards will win. This is coming from the DfT... it's almost ideological. If drivers go out, it may change things... they hold power, and management fvcking hate them because of it.

Edited by 7mins (02 Dec 2016 11.27am)

They aren't cutting safety staff by 50% though are they, Govia guaranteed they'd keep the same numbe of staff on trains until the end of the franchise, they're just changing their roles so they don't close the doors. This is how countless trains and operators already run so if it's unsafe, why are they allowed to do it?

In my opinion, it's got very little to do with safety and a lot to do with conductors, and their unions, having significantly less power and influence under the DOO system.

I also think Southern are also a a shambles by the way but its unacceptable how we, the commuters, are caught in the middle of this and are having our lives severely disrupted because of it. We are a captive audience who have no choice but to use their services, unless we change jobs which is not something people should have to consider simply because there's an argument over who closes the bloody train doors.

You're wrong. The whole point of getting rid of the guards safety training was to run trains without guards. Southern will not guarantee a 2nd member of staff on board. If you don't believe me, contact them and ask them.
It's the thin end of the wedge... TOCs want to be able to run with only the driver.., the long term plan is to get rid of guards and OBS's and move towards a small mobile team of revenue protection staff.

^
Not a guess