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'Christianity' vs 'Islam'

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 02 Jul 17 6.55pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

God or no God considering the existence of humanity is just a tiny pinprick in the history of Earth then any cause/religion that folk follow that doesn't strongly involve equality, the lessening of suffering, fairness and tolerance is making their life even less meaningless in the grander scheme of things than it is already.

what else of importance is there to aim for?

Edited by Kermit8 (02 Jul 2017 7.23pm)

 


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View 20 Spaces Isnt Enoug's Profile 20 Spaces Isnt Enoug Flag Bolton 02 Jul 17 7.16pm Send a Private Message to 20 Spaces Isnt Enoug Add 20 Spaces Isnt Enoug as a friend


I found "Mere Christianity" by C.S.Lewis a great help.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 02 Jul 17 7.57pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

That's accepting a religious narrative for a 'god'.

If a 'god' exists we have no idea upon what basis their existence rests.

I think God has got to be omnipotent otherwise God would be subject to other forces which in effect would be more powerful than God.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Jul 17 9.50pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

I think God has got to be omnipotent otherwise God would be subject to other forces which in effect would be more powerful than God.

There are lots of possibilities.

The god who created this universe could have been created by another god who doesn't deal with this one.

We could have been created by a god who isn't able or interested to interfere with the processes from within its creation.....Like a programmer who once they create a large enough program can't tell you exactly what's going on within the program at any one instance.

So many possibilities....Perhaps we are crabs at the bottom of the rockpool looking up at the surface regarding the ripples from raindrops as messages from a creator.

Hang on...that sounds like I'm on a spliff......when I'm actually trying out this new strong coffee from Tescos.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 02 Jul 17 10.12pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

There are lots of possibilities.

The god who created this universe could have been created by another god who doesn't deal with this one.

We could have been created by a god who isn't able or interested to interfere with the processes from within its creation.....Like a programmer who once they create a large enough program can't tell you exactly what's going on within the program at any one instance.

So many possibilities....Perhaps we are crabs at the bottom of the rockpool looking up at the surface regarding the ripples from raindrops as messages from a creator.

Hang on...that sounds like I'm on a spliff......when I'm actually trying out this new strong coffee from Tescos.

What you mean like Marx and Corbyn?

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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View Kiwi's Profile Kiwi 03 Jul 17 5.21am Send a Private Message to Kiwi Add Kiwi as a friend

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan As for the comparison there is no comparison, Islamic fundamentalism which has nothing to do with Islam
Edited by Ouzo Dan (16 Apr 2017 10.37am)

It's Islamic, but nothing to do with Islam?

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan a student was murdered by his fellow Muslim students for blasphemy, of course it's worth pointing out it has nothing to do with Islam.

Edited by Ouzo Dan (16 Apr 2017 10.37am)

Murdered for blasphemy, but nothing to do with the religion he blasphemed against?

Is this comedy or what?

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 03 Jul 17 10.10am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

If God exists, God is omnipotent so could exist outside of time and space and interact within space and time. If you are omnipotent, you can do what the hell you like.

Yes, but then your scientific explanation of god is flawed, because something cannot exist outside of time and space and interact with it - as such its pseudo-scientific attempt to justify the existence of god.

Something that interacts within time and space, must have a presence within it. Everything we know even about subatomic particles for which 'existence in time and space is weird' has properties in time and space when it interacts.

Dimensions aren't alternative realities, they're part of reality.

Also, to then ascribe that entity as being god as depicted by religion x is also an immediately illogical. Not to mention it presents no argument about how it can exist, without origin or where it resides - its simply an attempt to move the goal posts.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 03 Jul 17 10.13am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

I think God has got to be omnipotent otherwise God would be subject to other forces which in effect would be more powerful than God.

Or god doesn't exist, and we're mearly ascribing events and phenomena we might not understand, but can be explained in very complicated ways.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 03 Jul 17 10.27am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Or god doesn't exist, and we're mearly ascribing events and phenomena we might not understand, but can be explained in very complicated ways.

Absolutely that could be true. But the existence of God seems to me to be as likely/unlikely as the universe spontaneously springing into existence (I'm happy to accept a Big Bang, but have difficulty accepting that it somehow just happened of its own volition). None of this means that I necessarily believe in the existence of a god, sometime I do, sometimes I don't - generally I do when flying in aeroplanes and when feeing ill.

Edited by hedgehog50 (03 Jul 2017 10.27am)

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 03 Jul 17 10.38am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Well we are back to my previous point. It is just as much a leap of faith to believe that the big bang happened spontaneously than it is to believe that omnipotent being caused it.

Firstly, it can only 'happen' spontaneously, as prior to the big bang, there is no dimension of spacetime. Prior to this, everything exists that exists now - without space and time (see quantum theory).

Now why that occurs (and it might not occur, it might just simply be that we're experiencing it from an internal perspective of existing within space and time - as from high dimensional topology objects in space time are different ie from a fifth dimensional perspective time is occurred not occuring) is the question.

However that 'big bang occured' only applies to a perspective within space-time as a dimension (i.e. we are simply see it as occurring, because we're a part of the process of something that has already occurred for a brief time.

Or if it was an event that causes big bang (and the term causal is reliant on time and space events), such as how dimensions function within a reality, how realities exist etc.

However, none of this requires god, or a creator or event really an event to trigger big bang. We call it big bang, as its a convenient method of explaining a very complex series of theoretical models, which are evidenced by astrophysical research, quantum and relative physics.

What really happens with big bang is that subatomic particles go from being in a null state, to the state we are experiencing them in (which is a state of entropic change that will result in an end state) - but we are also part of that entropic change.

From a 5th or higher state, that 'change' has occurred (much in the same way that we see 2D and 3D models as being constants, the same applies to 4D from a higher dimension).

But none of this requires a god. Prior to big bang everything existed, after big bang everything still existed, and we're a part of that process (briefly).

We're kind of like a Salmon in a stream trying to understand what land is.


 


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View Part Time James's Profile Part Time James Flag 03 Jul 17 10.44am Send a Private Message to Part Time James Add Part Time James as a friend

I think we're all a big mistake. We are like the consequence of the infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters. Atoms that have come together and just so happened to have become a human race on a planet. An almost infinitely unlikely thing to have happened, but not quite infinitely unlikely/impossible.

Like Jamie says, because we can't explain that or reconcile the fact that something so coincidental could've happened, we've come up with some bloke that did it. Because Science is too complicated it must've been some bloke. And because to not be able to reconcile that there is no reason for us to exist at all, we've had to appease our fears by assuming we are part of some bloke's plan.

Well good for you if you're able to believe in some bloke who has a plan for you, but you'll be born and you'll die either way.

 




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View Part Time James's Profile Part Time James Flag 03 Jul 17 10.45am Send a Private Message to Part Time James Add Part Time James as a friend

I've subsequently seen that Jamie has fully quashed any belief in some bloke with a big sciencey answer!

 




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