The Right-Wing are less intelligent...
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 Part Time James  14 Jun 17 3.05pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
See vote by education level. Not necessarily an accurate measure of intelligence, but certainly a proxy with some degree of correlation. Is there any correlation between class/income vs education level? I assume so, but don't know. If so, is there an argument that left wing ideals are favoured by those on high incomes and vice versa? I don't pre-suppose anything here, honest and innocent questions.
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| Stirlingsays 14 Jun 17 3.57pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
See vote by education level. Not necessarily an accurate measure of intelligence, but certainly a proxy with some degree of correlation.
If maths and engineering students were screaming lefties I might take this stuff about intelligence more seriously. A good number of humanities students are not so great....well...actually....the humanities birds were easier to pull at uni....So they did in fact have a purpose. More dippy female humanities students please for 'Stirling-like' IT students to lust after. Like many things a person's politics isn't as simple a factor as their 'intelligence'. Upbringings and relationships with parents have far more significant. That's so blindingly obvious it shouldn't even need saying. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Jun 2017 4.00pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Jun 17 3.59pm |
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Originally posted by Part Time James
Is there any correlation between class/income vs education level? I assume so, but don't know. If so, is there an argument that left wing ideals are favoured by those on high incomes and vice versa? I don't pre-suppose anything here, honest and innocent questions. You'd be right, there is a definite strong correlation between educational level and class, with rising class levels generally showing increased levels of higher education. I think there is also a strong tendency for people to mistake liberalism for left wing ideals. A lot of people who get labelled left wing, aren't really very left wing, and closer to liberalism, which has always had a very strong basis among the traditional middle and upper classes. But I do think that among the left wing there has a been a long history of valuing education and educational self improvement (and unions are very big on pushing education and educational support). That's not to say it doesn't occur among the right wing, but that it doesn't seem to have been as common. I think its also something that's fading from the left, and that among the less fortunate among us, the value of intelligence and education has been supplanted by a value on money, fame and celebrity.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stirlingsays 14 Jun 17 4.10pm |
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Logic makes a mockery of the whole argument anyway. Taking the concept that human intelligence is broadly similar in terms of breakdown around the world independent of nations (I'm not touching that racial stuff). If we take that down as read then it would state that broadly the left/right breakdown would also be similar all around the world. It obviously isn't.....Political affiliation is far more about culture and family upbringings...the relationship you have with your Mum and Dad and the messages they pushed at you and how you felt about them.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Part Time James 14 Jun 17 4.10pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
You'd be right, there is a definite strong correlation between educational level and class, with rising class levels generally showing increased levels of higher education. I think there is also a strong tendency for people to mistake liberalism for left wing ideals. A lot of people who get labelled left wing, aren't really very left wing, and closer to liberalism, which has always had a very strong basis among the traditional middle and upper classes. But I do think that among the left wing there has a been a long history of valuing education and educational self improvement (and unions are very big on pushing education and educational support). That's not to say it doesn't occur among the right wing, but that it doesn't seem to have been as common. I think its also something that's fading from the left, and that among the less fortunate among us, the value of intelligence and education has been supplanted by a value on money, fame and celebrity. Yeah, I find myself agreeing with a lot of that. Although I do also find myself struggling with the terms "left wing" and "right wing" lately, because I think it's over simplifying things and trying to pigeon hole political opinions that are not quite as polar or clear cut as the terms conveniently aim to portray. But that's another debate.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Jun 17 4.11pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
If maths and engineering students were screaming lefties I might take this stuff about intelligence more seriously. A good number of humanities students are not so great....well...actually....the humanities birds were easier to pull at uni....So they did in fact have a purpose. More dippy female humanities students please for 'Stirling-like' IT students to lust after. I think that comes down to what you studied, and how much effort you put into it. I spend a lot of time working with graduates with IT degrees who are completely lost when it comes to writing documents, referencing, different styles of reporting, correct use of language for different document styles etc. IT degrees are for people who aren't clever enough to get into Computer Science degrees and lack the imagination to write Its really about skill sets. Most IT graduates might well be computer literate, but they do tend to lack a lot of other very useful skills, that outside of their field would probably leave them struggling. IT skills sets and engineering tend to be applicable, because these are big fields of industry with high demand. But that IT degree wouldn't help much outside of that field, say if you went to work in a legal office, where those skills picked up from studying History really would.
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| Stirlingsays 14 Jun 17 4.13pm |
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Originally posted by Part Time James
Yeah, I find myself agreeing with a lot of that. Although I do also find myself struggling with the terms "left wing" and "right wing" lately, because I think it's over simplifying things and trying to pigeon hole political opinions that are not quite as polar or clear cut as the terms conveniently aim to portray. But that's another debate. Libertarian/Authoritarian is probably a better way to think about it. Though again, people are often their own mixtures.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 14 Jun 17 4.14pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
If maths and engineering students were screaming lefties I might take this stuff about intelligence more seriously. A good number of humanities students are not so great....well...actually....the humanities birds were easier to pull at uni....So they did in fact have a purpose. More dippy female humanities students please for 'Stirling-like' IT students to lust after. Like many things a person's politics isn't as simple a factor as their 'intelligence'. Upbringings and relationships with parents have far more significant. That's so blindingly obvious it shouldn't even need saying. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Jun 2017 4.00pm) Data from HESA (experts in data and analysis of Higher Education in the UK). 2015/16 courses (all levels of study): 45% were sciences (including computer science, architecture and planning, maths, engineering and medicine) 10% Social studies (inc. economics, politics, sociology, human geography, anthropology etc.) 4% Law 15% Business and Administration (inc. business studies, management, finance, accounting, marketing and other "softer" courses (c.2%)) 5% Languages 4% History and philosophy 5% Education.
9% creative arts and design (of which many will be very worthwhile and we would be much poorer socially without) and 3% mass communications and documentation (mainly media studies). I'd say a lot of these look quite worthwhile without looking at the actual prospectuses.
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| Mapletree Croydon 14 Jun 17 4.15pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
If maths and engineering students were screaming lefties I might take this stuff about intelligence more seriously. A good number of humanities students are not so great....well...actually....the humanities birds were easier to pull at uni....So they did in fact have a purpose. More dippy female humanities students please for 'Stirling-like' IT students to lust after. Like many things a person's politics isn't as simple a factor as their 'intelligence'. Upbringings and relationships with parents have far more significant. That's so blindingly obvious it shouldn't even need saying. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Jun 2017 4.00pm) And the most prized graduates for the top private firms are... philosophy graduates. Especially Oxbridge of course. Massive employer demand.
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 14 Jun 17 4.16pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Logic makes a mockery of the whole argument anyway. Taking the concept that human intelligence is broadly similar in terms of breakdown around the world independent of nations (I'm not touching that racial stuff). If we take that down as read then it would state that broadly the left/right breakdown would also be similar all around the world. It obviously isn't.....Political affiliation is far more about culture and family upbringings...the relationship you have with your Mum and Dad and the messages they pushed at you and how you felt about them. How do you tally that with the big generational differences in the voting in this election? It's by far the biggest predictor of how you vote now. This means that there must be people in the same family voting very differently.
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| Stirlingsays 14 Jun 17 4.17pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I think that comes down to what you studied, and how much effort you put into it. I spend a lot of time working with graduates with IT degrees who are completely lost when it comes to writing documents, referencing, different styles of reporting, correct use of language for different document styles etc. IT degrees are for people who aren't clever enough to get into Computer Science degrees and lack the imagination to write Its really about skill sets. Most IT graduates might well be computer literate, but they do tend to lack a lot of other very useful skills, that outside of their field would probably leave them struggling. IT skills sets and engineering tend to be applicable, because these are big fields of industry with high demand. But that IT degree wouldn't help much outside of that field, say if you went to work in a legal office, where those skills picked up from studying History really would. Stop being accurate. I do regret not taking that computer science degree....wimped out. And just to clarify....there's nothing wrong with dippy female humanities students....God love em.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Jun 17 4.19pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Logic makes a mockery of the whole argument anyway. Taking the concept that human intelligence is broadly similar in terms of breakdown around the world independent of nations (I'm not touching that racial stuff). If we take that down as read then it would state that broadly the left/right breakdown would also be similar all around the world. It obviously isn't.....Political affiliation is far more about culture and family upbringings...the relationship you have with your Mum and Dad and the messages they pushed at you and how you felt about them. I think there is a tendency towards the left, largely because education tends to result in people questioning more, and there are a lot of things we're brought up with to accept as the norm, that get questioned and in doing so, I think people tend to become more liberal - rather than left wing. Its just that a lot of people on the right tends to see things like equality of gender, human rights, gay marriage, free speech as 'lefty' - they aren't they're liberal. The left tends to adopt them, because pragmatically, they're more in competition with liberalism in the UK than Conservatism.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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