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December 12 2019 8.29am

Bias against Trump

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Deleted 01 Dec 19 8.13pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

That whole ideology is a complete and utter nonsense.

Nothing but excuse politics....Ok, how comes so many other countries are doing well after western interventions.....China, Japan, Israel the list goes on.

Excuse politics when the reality is far more obvious.

Its not politics, it's fact. You can easily find information on US interventionism in probably all South American countries. It's not me politicising it, it's out there for all to see. Regime changes to put in leaders that would be more receptive to US interests as been one for decades all over the World. We don't have much here, but if we had the 2nd highest oil rich land and we nationalised it, they would interfere.

China has always been a super power just through the sheer size. They fell off due to incompetent authoritarians, but are back, and are largely communist. Not sure the US has intervened to the same extent. Japan are a US ally now and have been for a while. Israel the same. There is a theme here.


 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 01 Dec 19 8.30pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Jway89

Its not politics, it's fact. You can easily find information on US interventionism in probably all South American countries. It's not me politicising it, it's out there for all to see. Regime changes to put in leaders that would be more receptive to US interests as been one for decades all over the World. We don't have much here, but if we had the 2nd highest oil rich land and we nationalised it, they would interfere.

Utter rot, the US backed one side within internal disputes. All completely unethical of course but it has zero impact on their historic economic wealth.

It was sh1te before the Americans, it's was sh1te after the Americans....Who didn't run the places anyway.

Pure excuse politics.

Originally posted by Jway89

China has always been a super power just through the sheer size.

Really....strange then how it only took a few gunships for the British to beat them in the Opium Wars and the Islands of Japan to roll over them in 37.

No China haven't always been a super power......but they made a success once they abandoned pure communism for social communism, economic statist capitalism.

As for the abilities and successes of the Chinese......apparently someone should tell them that 'diversity is a strength' because they didn't get the memo.


Originally posted by Jway89

They fell off due to incompetent authoritarians, but are back, and are largely communist. Not sure the US has intervened to the same extent.

They had western interventionism and succeeded a long long time ago.


Originally posted by Jway89

Japan are a US ally now and have been for a while.

Japan were successful before and after western interventionism.....As for being a US ally....Well so are most of the South American countries.


Originally posted by Jway89

Israel the same. There is a theme here.

Indeed, there is.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2019 8.46pm)

 

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Deleted 01 Dec 19 9.21pm

Again. I would encourage more reading into US interventionism in South America. Venezuela, which is pretty current was left alone for a while and Chavez did very well, even according to US figures released when Carter was president. Their failing was that their economy was completely based on oil, not so different from ours being based on finance and services, and they didnt keep enough reserves, so when the oil price went down, it all went down. On top of having to deal with that, the US imposed sanctions that are on a par with Iran, so they can't even bring back their own gold from Europe.

So you can say it has no affect, I would say it does, but again, it's not just interventionism, it's a mixture of things.

Excuse politics? I just don't deal in excuses or absolutes. Look at all the facts and make a decision. I try not to cherry pick the information to suit my views.

I encourage you to read a little on the Han Dynasty and before, just like India. If you believe that Imperialism civilised them, then that is a very singular view. With regards to 'diversity'. I am sure you are more than aware of the birth control methods they had. They just don't need more people, although they obviously have immigrants from around their area.
So western interventionism or as is better known 'the century of humiliation' dragged them back, which was to be expected.

So, im not saying i want communism and that capitalism is all bad. You seem to believe that it's a choice between the two, but as you have admitted, at least morally, is that you are for some socialistic policies and elements to be implemented.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 01 Dec 19 10.27pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Jway89

Again. I would encourage more reading into US interventionism in South America. Venezuela, which is pretty current was left alone for a while and Chavez did very well, even according to US figures released when Carter was president. Their failing was that their economy was completely based on oil, not so different from ours being based on finance and services, and they didnt keep enough reserves, so when the oil price went down, it all went down. On top of having to deal with that, the US imposed sanctions that are on a par with Iran, so they can't even bring back their own gold from Europe.

So you can say it has no affect, I would say it does, but again, it's not just interventionism, it's a mixture of things.

Excuse politics? I just don't deal in excuses or absolutes. Look at all the facts and make a decision. I try not to cherry pick the information to suit my views.


Mmmm....

I'm fifty, I've been a teacher for years. I looked into all this over twenty years ago. Yet you tell me to read material that you believe in, when I could direct you to material that you wouldn't believe in.....no point.

South America has plenty of resources and shouldn't be poor anymore than North America is rich. Both the North and South have considerable resources of oil....the fact that South America and Chavez produce economies that are just 'all eggs in one basket' is a function of their institutions and corruption.

I think you are just repeating the left wing explanations and talking points that over emphasizes American effects due to basic anti Americanism and ignores the holistic reality that different societies have different levels of trust and faith/corruption in institutions....and hence investment and hence talent.

Basically if Europeans had decided to take over South America remove all the Hispanics and stay there....Then South America would be rich and North America would be the sh1teshow.....Not politically correct but just true.

That's not to say that there aren't talented and good Hispanics of course there are.....but honest readings of the facts don't lie.

You'd prefer to believe in excuses from those wanting to give them and those wanting to believe them.

As for the point about the UK economy....It switched to services and finance much more in the late seventies....it is most certainly not the feature of our economy until the recent times. From agriculture to the industrial revolution to today's services we had multi threaded approaches to the economy.

The British basically has never had a one trick pony economy because that's not what successful economies do.

Originally posted by Jway89

I encourage you to read a little on the Han Dynasty and before, just like India. If you believe that Imperialism civilised them, then that is a very singular view.

That is the very opposite of what I said....sigh.

As for the reading, I suspect I've read far more than yourself.
You said they have always been a superpower....No they haven't. A superpower projects power beyond their region.....China has been invaded and knocked around by the Mongols, British, Japaneses.....all vastly smaller nations. Like India, it was too large to coordinate or control its resources until relatively modern times where it has the benefits and advantages of the west's advances.

I did not speculate upon their civilisation.....which has always been impressive....and just proves my wider point anyway.


Originally posted by Jway89

With regards to 'diversity'. I am sure you are more than aware of the birth control methods they had. They just don't need more people, although they obviously have immigrants from around their area.

Fine, if you just completely ignore the Chinese attitude to foreigners and immigrants. The Han don't allow anyone who isn't Han to have any power on the mainland....that's just reality.


Originally posted by Jway89

So western interventionism or as is better known 'the century of humiliation' dragged them back, which was to be expected.

Sure, and they succeeded as they had done before and as they did after.....whereas, you are still blaming the west for everyone who doesn't.

Originally posted by Jway89

So, im not saying i want communism and that capitalism is all bad. You seem to believe that it's a choice between the two, but as you have admitted, at least morally, is that you are for some socialistic policies and elements to be implemented.

Sure.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2019 10.31pm)

 

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Deleted 01 Dec 19 10.58pm

Please, show me material and links. You seem to think im this lunatic sjw anti american actividt. On the conteary. As you have seen from my past posts, i will often quote or post facts from government websites and if i use other sources it's because the basic facts show the true picture.

As I said, there are many reasons for why South America isn't as succesful as the US and corruption was one poing i stated.

But the uk economy is 70% services now. I didn't say we were a one trick pony, just that Chavez and Maduro kept Venezuela as one.

Again, not excuses.

Let's try a different approach.

Has the US imposed it's own picked leaders in SA countries?
Does this benefit their companies?
Even John Bolton admitted as much in an interview. An i know he is a neo con.

I admit the use of the term superpower may not have been the best term. The implication is that they were a backwards civilisation before the west helped them.

I dont blame the west for anything. Im simply stating the facts.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Dec 19 1.39am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Jway89

Please, show me material and links. You seem to think im this lunatic sjw anti american actividt. On the conteary. As you have seen from my past posts, i will often quote or post facts from government websites and if i use other sources it's because the basic facts show the true picture.

No I don't see you as that. I don't think I'd engage you in long discussions if you were. I see you as a left learning neo liberal. A common and well respected political position....that I view as very wrong for us long term.... But I don't deny that it's well meaning.

You want me to spend time researching something from a long time ago? What for? To argue something you wouldn't accept anyway. I've already made some of the arguments.

The only thing the US is to blame for is in being a successful country and in looking out for its own self interest.....Which is the Modus operandi of all other countries.

However, because it's been successful, like all the anglosphere, it's held to a different standard.....Something the left wing Europeans tend to do due to their egalitarian impulses.

Originally posted by Jway89

As I said, there are many reasons for why South America isn't as succesful as the US and corruption was one poing i stated.

Yeah, higher levels of corruption. The US and the anglosphere in general is not responsible for South American culture....or for any other unsuccessful culture.

Originally posted by Jway89

But the uk economy is 70% services now. I didn't say we were a one trick pony, just that Chavez and Maduro kept Venezuela as one.

Again, not excuses.

Really, not excuses?.....South America has never had a successful economy with living standards comparable to Europe. This idea that it was ever different is just not reality.

And it's true, European cultures are less corrupt and higher trust socieities in general....Less crime and more stable societies leading to higher business investment and all the rest of it. That's the real driver between the lack of investment and working institutions, retention of talent and hence wealth.

All realities that lie behind the original contention....Not 'it was America that did it'.


Originally posted by Jway89
Let's try a different approach.
Has the US imposed it's own picked leaders in SA countries?
Does this benefit their companies?
Even John Bolton admitted as much in an interview. An i know he is a neo con.

You say, 'lets try a different approach' when I've already answered this.

America didn't 'impose' it picked one side of an existing group within that state.

Sure it benefited the US for a time and it also made little difference......It is not the reason South and Central America is poor and not the reason it's an economic 'sh1tshow'.

John Bolton did not state that the US is responsible for the economies and societal problems of South American countries.

Once again, there are plenty of countries America has intervened in and actually ran....like Japan, which are highly successful.....You just choose to believe victim narratives that point the finger at others because of their own inadequacies.

Once again, it was a sh1tshow before the Americans and it's been a s***eshow long after American interference....A point continually ignored.

Originally posted by Jway89

I admit the use of the term superpower may not have been the best term. The implication is that they were a backwards civilisation before the west helped them.

I dont blame the west for anything. Im simply stating the facts.

You're parroting left wing narratives that blame the west for the problems of less successful countries and then stating it as fact. I've pointed out the inconsistencies of that view.....ie different countries success levels and how different societies create different environments for economies.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Dec 2019 10.51am)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Dec 19 2.22am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Record Black Friday sales in the US.....Up 22 percent.

People spending.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Dec 2019 2.22am)

 

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Deleted 02 Dec 19 8.33am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Record Black Friday sales in the US.....Up 22 percent.

People spending.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Dec 2019 2.22am)

Ahhh. Ok.

2.22am. You students are really lucky.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Dec 19 9.24am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Jway89

Ahhh. Ok.

2.22am. You students are really lucky.

A bit petty.

Former teacher in terms of the state system.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Dec 2019 9.55am)

 

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Deleted 02 Dec 19 10.29am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

A bit petty.

Former teacher in terms of the state system.


Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Dec 2019 9.55am)

Trump like petty almost.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Dec 19 10.46am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Jway89

Trump like petty almost.

It can't be denied.

Trump feeds off of conflict, he entered politics at just the right time for him.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 02 Dec 19 11.25am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Record Black Friday sales in the US.....Up 22 percent.

People spending.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Dec 2019 2.22am)

Black friday...
Strange it hasnt been renamed due to the fact it has a link to slavery.
It is named after the slave sales the day after Thanksgiving.
Food for thought really.

 

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