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July 20 2019 9.04am

Bias against Trump

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 25 Jul 17 2.32am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Disagree. Democrats missed a trick not going for Bernie.

I can't see him sticking around for another go....how old would he be? Then again, they do like an old politician in the US.

More naps than policy.

Where is the up and coming talent with the democrats?

The republicans have Rubio who looks promising....Ben Sharpio says he'll run at some point.

I found out that Michael Flynn is a registered democrat....which I found highly amusing.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2017 2.37am)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 25 Jul 17 2.34am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Jimenez

Sanders appeal is not far reaching enough especially outside of urban areas.
Bloomberg should of ran as a third party candidate, there was enough support as both Trump & Clinton are as woeful as each other.

Yeah but Bloomberg puts a whole new spin on boring....He's like some kind of mega bore bot....I can't get to the end of his sentences without drifting off!

I know....it's a personal failing.

 

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View Ray in Houston's Profile Ray in Houston Flag Houston 25 Jul 17 3.53pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Real violence is a very real possibility in America. The level of division and lack of compromise between the two ideological camps is getting worse and common sense is becoming like helium.

And you think Trump with his "ban Muslims" and "Mexicans are rapists" rhetoric is helping? Yes, I hate Trump, but not for who he is; I hate him because of what he's doing to my adopted country.

As to the suggestion that there's no evidence, as to the Russian hacking effort that is simply not true. 17 US intelligence agencies said it happened and said it was designed to help only Trump.

As for evidence of collusion by the Trump campaign, you only have to look at Don Jr's emails. He was told that a "Russian government attorney" had dirt on Clinton gathered by Russia's "crown prosecutor" and he responded with "I love it" and rushed to set up a meeting. He brought with him the Trump campaign manager - Manafort - and a Trump campaign advisor and now White House advisor - Kushner. That's collusion by definition.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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View Ray in Houston's Profile Ray in Houston Flag Houston 25 Jul 17 4.06pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Trump has been investigated on a large scale for a year on this Russia thing and nothing can be directly tied to him. Hell, Trump has actually had investigations into all his business dealings for years.

What I can agree with is that if he were helped by Russia I believe that he would have used that help. But as too what actual effective stuff went on that broke the law......Still nothing...I can't see him being impeached over this....This is a mixture of wish fulfillment and demonisation.....Again, I await for something actually solid.

Just like the attempts over Bill Clinton's impeachment all this smells more of political motivation than any real concern for the health of America.

I think it's far wiser for democrats to sort out an effective leader and campaign for the next election...beat his party in the mid terms and him in an election....If Trump is removed in a manner that looks like the establishment did it.....The response is going to be a sh1tshow.


As to Trump accepting help from Russia: there's a law against that. A specific, written, long established law, ignorance of which is no defense.

As to political motivation: the investigation into Russian activity in the election began back in 2015, before Trump was even a candidate, because US intelligence services started picking up a lot of chatter between Russian operatives about contacts with Trump associates. Back then, no one took his candidacy seriously, so it's very hard to make the case that this was a big set up - by the entirety of the US intelligence services - to "get" Trump.

As to the strategy of Democrats and their choice of nominee, you'll get no argument from me. They put up the only candidate who could lose to Trump - anyone else and he doesn't pull out the wafer-thin wins in the swing states of Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. If Biden was running, for example, he sweeps those comfortably. The Democrats are a mess and need to take what happened to them as motivation to put their own hose in order. So far, there's no evidence of that happening.

For the record, I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I voted on a ballot that includes pretty much every national, state and local position down to city dog catcher, and my ballot included candidates from both major parties and some minor ones. I did my research on each race and voted for the person I thought best suited for the job, regardless of party.

For example, my US Representative is Ted Poe. I hate Ted Poe. However, I voted for him because his Democratic opponent was a basket case who should not be allowed anywhere near a lever of power (or any other lever, to be honest).

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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View Ray in Houston's Profile Ray in Houston Flag Houston 25 Jul 17 4.10pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Disagree. Democrats missed a trick not going for Bernie.

Just for the record, Bernie is not a Democrat. He's an independent. If nothing else, this goes to show how far removed from its base the party leadership is. The base was screaming for a progressive and the party offered up a centrist / corporatist who wore - uncomfortably - a cloak of progressivism in order to win the nomination.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 25 Jul 17 4.57pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

And you think Trump with his "ban Muslims" and "Mexicans are rapists" rhetoric is helping? Yes, I hate Trump, but not for who he is; I hate him because of what he's doing to my adopted country.

As to the suggestion that there's no evidence, as to the Russian hacking effort that is simply not true. 17 US intelligence agencies said it happened and said it was designed to help only Trump.

As for evidence of collusion by the Trump campaign, you only have to look at Don Jr's emails. He was told that a "Russian government attorney" had dirt on Clinton gathered by Russia's "crown prosecutor" and he responded with "I love it" and rushed to set up a meeting. He brought with him the Trump campaign manager - Manafort - and a Trump campaign advisor and now White House advisor - Kushner. That's collusion by definition.

Well, the number of Muslims in America is comparatively low compared to Europe so it's not exactly causing him issues to speak the truth about the dangers of allowing the increase in their population without restrictions...Their security services have done very well since 9/11.....But any look at what happens to a country when the general population of Muslims becomes a majority teaches anybody sensible a lesson. So secular Muslims or Muslims in love with western culture please...no one else...Well essentially that's saying secular Muslims only...Europe should have been doing this a long time ago.

Mexicans? The percentage of Mexicans who voted for Trump shows you exactly what many Mexicans who live in America think of what he said....Despite much negative Democratic propaganda amid ridiculous levels of hostility he essentially polled 29 percent of the Hispanic vote....two percent up from the last election.

Trump's comments about race were clumsy and more than a bit ignorant but when push comes to shove people are more interested in what their economic future is likely to be than worrying about whether the guy/girl in charge is nice or not.....The reaction to Trump's bombast was over the top and instead of coming across like the adult (I give Clinton credit though as in the debates she did this) the general democratic reaction of rage use played into his divisive hands.

You are an adult and of course I understand being strongly opposed...I'm strongly opposed to this version of the EU...but hate? I only hate those that want to kill me. I suggest that this does your cause more harm than good. It mirrors Trump himself and a closed fist only meets another closed fist. Unless there is a war then understanding and compromise where appropriate lower tensions rather than stroke them.

As for what you are calling 'collusion' I'm sympathetic to a degree but I don't agree with what you are suggesting. So far, it's not 'collusion' as in breaking US law. I don't think what you hope for in terms of outcome of these investigations will agree with you either.....It's unethical behaviour I agree with you....But Clinton's team was wholly unethical as well....So a plague on both their houses.

Were Trump's campaign looking for dirt on Clinton...Sure they were.

Were they willing to accept help from the Russians....I most definitely think so.

Were the Russians stupid enough to directly help them?....I doubt it...Not in a provable way....They thought Clinton would win....Far better to stick to fake news stories on Facebook and cyber hacking and leaking to Wikileaks.....Plausible deniability.....By the way anyone who thinks that Clinton's team hands are clean or that fake stories about Trump weren't swimming about is in denial.

Is Trump anti American? I know you think so but I reject that. He's a nationalist at heart and while he's accept help to bash his opponents if he can get it those who think he's Putin's puppet have just gone into demonisation overdrive and....I don't think they really 'get Trump'.....or they do but are willing to lie to present him as something he isn't because they are anti nationalist.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2017 4.58pm)

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 25 Jul 17 5.08pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Is Trump anti American? I know you think so but I reject that. He's a nationalist at heart and while he's accept help to bash his opponents if he can get it those who think he's Putin's puppet have just gone into demonisation overdrive and....I don't think they really 'get Trump'.....or they do but are willing to lie to present him as something he isn't because they are anti nationalist.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2017 4.58pm)

I think he thinks he's a patriot, but represents the issue that often plagues nationalists, empty jingoistic bulls**t used to justify all manner of policies that really have an agenda of a group within the US at heart (a corporate elite - the same as the democrats).

Its hard to label someone a nationalist, when they're promising the best health care for everyone in the election, and then rolling back peoples health care.

Can you be a Nationalist in the US, and then roll back states rights when it suits you, and defend them when it suits you.

I don't think he's any more of a nationalist than Clinton. Politicians use 'national' issues to further their own agenda, not the nations and its populations best interests.

Plus, has he ever really acted in the best interests of the US when he wasn't president? I don't think so - Can you really be a nationalist and not pay taxes?

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View Ray in Houston's Profile Ray in Houston Flag Houston 25 Jul 17 5.10pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well, the number of Muslims in America is comparatively low compared to Europe so it's not exactly causing him issues to speak the truth about the dangers of allowing the increase in their population without restrictions...Their security services have done very well since 9/11.....But any look at what happens to a country when the general population of Muslims becomes a majority teaches anybody sensible a lesson. So secular Muslims or Muslims in love with western culture please...no one else...Well essentially that's saying secular Muslims only...Europe should have been doing this a long time ago.

Mexicans? The percentage of Mexicans who voted for Trump shows you exactly what many Mexicans who live in America think of what he said....Despite much negative Democratic propaganda amid ridiculous levels of hostility he essentially polled 29 percent of the Hispanic vote....two percent up from the last election.

Trump's comments about race were clumsy and more than a bit ignorant but when push comes to shove people are more interested in what their economic future is likely to be than worrying about whether the guy/girl in charge is nice or not.....The reaction to Trump's bombast was over the top and instead of coming across like the adult (I give Clinton credit though as in the debates she did this) the general democratic reaction of rage use played into his divisive hands.

You are an adult and of course I understand being strongly opposed...I'm strongly opposed to this version of the EU...but hate? I only hate those that want to kill me. I suggest that this does your cause more harm than good. It mirrors Trump himself and a closed fist only meets another closed fist. Unless there is a war then understanding and compromise where appropriate lower tensions rather than stroke them.

As for what you are calling 'collusion' I'm sympathetic to a degree but I don't agree with what you are suggesting. So far, it's not 'collusion' as in breaking US law. I don't think what you hope for in terms of outcome of these investigations will agree with you either.....It's unethical behaviour I agree with you....But Clinton's team was wholly unethical as well....So a plague on both their houses.

Were Trump's campaign looking for dirt on Clinton...Sure they were.

Were they willing to accept help from the Russians....I most definitely think so.

Were the Russians stupid enough to directly help them?....I doubt it...Not in a provable way....They thought Clinton would win....Far better to stick to fake news stories on Facebook and cyber hacking and leaking to Wikileaks.....Plausible deniability.....By the way anyone who thinks that Clinton's team hands are clean or that fake stories about Trump weren't swimming about is in denial.

Is Trump anti American? I know you think so but I reject that. He's a nationalist at heart and while he's accept help to bash his opponents if he can get it those who think he's Putin's puppet have just gone into demonisation overdrive and....I don't think they really 'get Trump'.....or they do but are willing to lie to present him as something he isn't because they are anti nationalist.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. However, if you accept that the Trump campaign was willing to accept help from the Russians then you accept that a serious crime has been committed.

As to Trump's motivation, he's for Trump and Trump above all else. He's using the office to enrich himself and his family and seems not to give a damn about anything else.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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View .TUX.'s Profile .TUX. Flag 25 Jul 17 5.25pm Send a Private Message to .TUX. Add .TUX. as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. However, if you accept that the Trump campaign was willing to accept help from the Russians then you accept that a serious crime has been committed.

As to Trump's motivation, he's for Trump and Trump above all else. He's using the office to enrich himself and his family and seems not to give a damn about anything else.

He has a long way to go before he matches the Clintons tbf.

 


Buy Litecoin.

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 25 Jul 17 5.31pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. However, if you accept that the Trump campaign was willing to accept help from the Russians then you accept that a serious crime has been committed.

As to Trump's motivation, he's for Trump and Trump above all else. He's using the office to enrich himself and his family and seems not to give a damn about anything else.


I doubt that Trump is using the office to enrich himself but I've no doubt he'll reward those who are loyal to him. No different to all big time politicians.

I could be wrong, I suppose time hopefully will eventually reveal all....or wikileaks

Personally I think Trump was willing to accept help yeah...he even encouraged the Russians during the campaign in a speech. Do I think a serious crime happened no...I think that's hyperbolic. Both teams were dirty but either of them are puppets....influenced perhsps..People say stuff about middle eastern funding of the Clinton Foundation...it's iffy but while it buys influence I don't see puppetry.

However, I have no problems with investigation as long as its fair. My attitude towards those after Trump is the same as it was towards those who went after Bill Clinton. I doubt their motives but I am there to be convinced.

Like I say, removing Trump without an election would cause far worse problems. People need to be responsible. If you win the mid terms you stop his policies anyway.....Focus upon the groups who didn't vote for you because I have a feeling that the American economy is going to do quite well.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2017 5.46pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 25 Jul 17 6.51pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I think he thinks he's a patriot, but represents the issue that often plagues nationalists, empty jingoistic bulls**t used to justify all manner of policies that really have an agenda of a group within the US at heart (a corporate elite - the same as the democrats).

Its hard to label someone a nationalist, when they're promising the best health care for everyone in the election, and then rolling back peoples health care.

Can you be a Nationalist in the US, and then roll back states rights when it suits you, and defend them when it suits you.

I don't think he's any more of a nationalist than Clinton. Politicians use 'national' issues to further their own agenda, not the nations and its populations best interests.

Plus, has he ever really acted in the best interests of the US when he wasn't president? I don't think so - Can you really be a nationalist and not pay taxes?

I think he's a nationalist but I can't really disagree with any of your criticisms.

The big plus for me against Clinton was that he didn't have to ride any of that 'progressive' wave flowing through the democratic party right now. I didn't want any of that.....though this isn't really saying that I'm positive about Trump.

I'm not looking forward to them stripping away healthcare for the poor....However, the current situation is a mess....Maybe they need the disasters before they finally learn that a taxpayer system is the least worst option.....But in America...some groups don't want to pay for other groups...that's just how it is.

What gets me a little is that I've always been very pro American....sure there are somethings that are unforgivable in its past as in any country's past. I'll never get over Iran Air Flight 655...shot down by the USS Vincennes with the captain and crew receiving service medals while bits of children were floating around the ocean.....that's a scar for me....just as much as 9/11 should still be a scar...but some people seem to forget in pace with the news cycle once the body bags turn up.....As if going to war is ever free of cost.

However there are many great things about the US and much for us to be grateful for.

I'm pretty pro US but those who have always been critical of the US seem to suddenly think they have some kind of voice once it elects somebody they dislike even more.....They hold the US to different standards to other countries despite constantly slagging it off.....I've seen countries like China receiving praise with talk of them replacing the US in terms of respected world hegemony......China, a country where people are scared to talk about democracy and where the secret police patrol policing your thoughts and jailing those they find....Tibet seems to be just a word and Hong Kong...obviously nothing to see there...It's a joke...There are so many impressible people out there listening to anti US hyperbolic rhetoric.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2017 6.54pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 26 Jul 17 3.36am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

For those who are anti Trump, I'd watch Ben Sharpiro's latest video cast on Youtube.

He outlines where he thinks Trump is veering off course....He's more likely to implode and alienate himself with his own party so much that he makes himself a lame duck.

I recommend a listen...Sharpiro's pretty much a red meat republican but a very good media analyser....who's tipped to run at some point.

[Link]

 

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