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The Strange Death of Europe - Douglas K Murry

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 05 Dec 17 1.19pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

There is a lot of truth in that but unfortunately, there is one side of the argument that obfuscates, employs whataboutery like bringing Jeremy Corbyn into an argument about the Tories, DUP and Brexit for instanceand makes accusations of 'racism' whether the truth be told or not. They are not interested in the truth, only protecting their precious ideology, even if it ultimately means screwing themselves at the same time.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Dec 17 1.22pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

What about stretching the truth or using things out of context to perpetuate prejudice?

Something is either true or not. How you interpret facts depends on your point of view.
If you are hell bent on ignoring reality because it does not fit with your belief system or your self interests, then you will ignore the facts or invent other 'facts' or comparisons to counter them.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Dec 17 1.24pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Don't alter my posts or I will report it.

 

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View danny choo choo's Profile danny choo choo Flag hayes 05 Dec 17 1.26pm Send a Private Message to danny choo choo Add danny choo choo as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

There is a lot of truth in that but unfortunately, there is one side of the argument that obfuscates, employs whataboutery and makes accusations of 'racism' whether the truth be told or not. They are not interested in the truth, only protecting their precious ideology, even if it ultimately means screwing themselves at the same time.

you have somewhat stole my thunder but just to add i am far from blinkered and biased my eyes are wide open, i will listen and debate with anybody and will except and will and say when i happen to agree with their view and i am definatley open to being educated on something i was not aware of or wrong about thats why i dont like politicians towing the party line just for the cause which seems like just pure arrogance to me.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Dec 17 1.28pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Nah, both sides are doing that. What people probably don't realise is that they're playing into the kind of polarisation of issues, that the far right and the far left use as a means of removing the middle ground.

Of course, issues are polarised but facts are facts.

The left remove the middle ground by calling any criticism of immigrants or immigration 'racist'.
That is not the way you find common ground.

 

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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 05 Dec 17 1.39pm Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

No it doesn't.

It shows that the right keep dragging up the rape gang stuff which means that my mate Mo who runs the papershop has to endure a love hate relationship with his increasingly racist clientele.
However heinous the crime, to use it to stoke and perpetuate islamaphobia is plainly wrong.

I still contend from personal experience anyone who accuses an opponent of calling them racist tends to be one. Whether they consciously realise they are or not is an interesting debate.

Surprised this one's gone unchallenged. Are you suggesting that objecting to being called a racist, explicitly or implicitly, actually implies you're a racist?

It's all gone a bit "Life of Brian" here hasn't it?
"I'm not the messiah"
"Only the true messiah denies his divinity"
"What?! Alright I am the messiah"
"He is, he is the messiah"

 

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View Park Road's Profile Park Road Flag 05 Dec 17 1.50pm Send a Private Message to Park Road Add Park Road as a friend

Originally posted by npn

Surprised this one's gone unchallenged. Are you suggesting that objecting to being called a racist, explicitly or implicitly, actually implies you're a racist?

It's all gone a bit "Life of Brian" here hasn't it?
"I'm not the messiah"
"Only the true messiah denies his divinity"
"What?! Alright I am the messiah"
"He is, he is the messiah"

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 05 Dec 17 1.56pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Don't alter my posts or I will report it.

Just pointing something out, that is all.

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 05 Dec 17 2.15pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721


I think the issue of the right is the tendency to conflagrate the actions as some, as the actions of an entire group in society. In this case, notably child raping pimps and terrorists, with being a common trait of Muslims in general, rather than the exception. Whilst meanwhile seeing any criticism of this as being apologist, even though its a valid criticism that in fact that the correlation is being made out outliers in a community (as most muslims are not in the business of pimping out and raping children, nor terrorists).

Of course, rather than find a reasonable ground between these two, both sides seem to want to rally around the loudest shouting idiots waving their agenda flags, rather than embrace a reality.

Yes, there is most certainly a problem relating to organised child sex gangs in the UK, which has been linked to Muslim gangs. And of course the primary threat of terrorism is from specific sects within Islam.

Of course we should prosecute all child sex offenders, and those who exploit children for sex, irrespective of their religion. Same as we should with those involved in acts of terrorism, or supporting terrorism.

However, the key here is proportional response. Yes, the authorities let those girls down, just as they did in the 80s and 90s with abuse in childhomes, the sixties and the 70s, with celebrity sex offenders.

And those authorities, who's 'blind eye' that allowed these scandalous continuity of offences to occur were not Muslims. We know that pedophiles are not restricted by ethnicity or religion but predilection.

The real problem here isn't just the nonces per se, but those who have spend all their time looking away in the Social Services and the Police, who have completely failed in their responsibility. A nonce is a nonce - they're wrong un's. But those responsible for those girls, aren't.

As long as we just play on the Muslim aspect, we'll end up creating a new environment where nonces can hide away and rape kids. It'll just be a different group next time.

Well, those in social services or the Police are and were accused of racism by the 'progressive left' and Muslim communities.

People have mortgages to pay and livelihoods to protect.

You blame the services.....and I certainly do blame them for a lack of balls.....but those balls have been squeezed out of the Police by years of 'progressive' management and 'community' and 'racism' training.......a complete and utter nonsense that gave you the conditions for these events.

Anyone in the Police who isn't interested in justice regardless of race shouldn't be there anyway.....'training' is nothing but a suggestion otherwise and hence a humiliation and embarrassment.

The Police are like all public services.....the whipping boys for society's other ills. They are human beings and are no better or worse than the societies they come from....those with lofty notions otherwise are suffering with 'Mr Chips' type delusions.

But the real culprits of course are those who make the accusations everytime these questions were raised. Those who cry 'racist', 'dog whistle' and 'Islamophobia'.

That was the real reason that these crimes became so big and widespread.

You call yourself a progressive.....I regard you more as a 'Foot' communist type myself...someone whose politics is well meaning but whose vision only works if everyone in society played along...which never happens....well ok....this is like just saying 'progressive' by another name.

Anyway that's the wing of the left that is responsible for the environment that allowed this 'special' hands off treatment to become standard.

Any analysis into that situation needs to recognise the culpability of both equally.

Centralists and those in the Labour party that reject those notions of racial or class victimhood as relevant would have never allowed this environment to occur.

But there aren't many like 'John Mann' in the Labour party anymore....probably the only Labour MP I'd vote for.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2017 2.16pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 05 Dec 17 2.19pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Just pointing something out, that is all.

Unethically.

 

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View crystal balls's Profile crystal balls Flag The Garden of Earthly Delights 05 Dec 17 2.33pm Send a Private Message to crystal balls Add crystal balls as a friend

The figures that he seems to quote as evidence that higher immigration has lead to increases in rape in Sweden have been debunked conclusively many times. But this hasn't stopped many anti-immigration figures (including Trump) suggesting that Sweden is now a "failed state". This is patently untrue, and if this is a new book (as it would seem) then it draws into question the validity of it's content.

However the statistics are counted, by reported cases or number of convictions, it is clear that these are no greater in recent years, when immigration in greater numbers and from further afield is said to have occurred.


Swedish rape statistics[edit]
Ever since the collation of crime statistics was initiated by the Council of Europe, Sweden has had the highest number of registered rape offences in Europe by a considerable extent. In 1996, Sweden registered almost three times the average number of rape offences registered in 35 European countries. However, this does not necessarily mean rape is three times as likely to occur as in the rest of Europe, since cross-national comparisons of crime levels based on official crime statistics are problematic, due to a number of factors described below.[16][17][18][19]

There are three types of factors that determine the outcome of crime statistics: statistical factors, legal factors, and substantive factors.[16][17][18] The combined effect of these "make it safe to contend that the Swedish rape statistics constitute an 'over-reporting' relative to the European average", according to a study by Hanns von Hofer, Professor of Criminology at Stockholm University, published by The European Journal on Criminal Policy and Research.[16]

Statistical factors[edit]
Unlike the majority of countries in Europe, crime data in Sweden are collected when the offence in question is first reported, at which point the classification may be unclear. In Sweden, once an act has been registered as rape, it retains this classification in the published crime statistics, even if later investigations indicate that no crime can be proven or if the offence must be given an alternative judicial classification.[16][17][18]

Sweden also applies a system of expansive offence counts. Other countries may employ more restrictive methods of counting. The Swedish police registers one offence for each person raped, and if one and the same person has been raped on a number of occasions, one offence is counted for each occasion that can be specified. For example, if a woman says she has been raped by her husband every day during a month, the Swedish police may record more than 30 cases of rape. In many other countries only a single offence would be counted in such a situation.[20][16][21][18][19]

In Sweden, crime statistics refer to the year when the offence was reported; the actual offence may have been committed long before. Swedish rape statistics can thus contain significant time-lag, which makes interpretations of annual changes difficult.[16][18]

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 05 Dec 17 2.49pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by crystal balls

The figures that he seems to quote as evidence that higher immigration has lead to increases in rape in Sweden have been debunked conclusively many times. But this hasn't stopped many anti-immigration figures (including Trump) suggesting that Sweden is now a "failed state". This is patently untrue, and if this is a new book (as it would seem) then it draws into question the validity of it's content.

However the statistics are counted, by reported cases or number of convictions, it is clear that these are no greater in recent years, when immigration in greater numbers and from further afield is said to have occurred.

No it isn't. I have an open mind on this issue.

The reality is that you can't tell.

In an environment that is so politically charged as this one, how those crimes are categorised in terms of 'sensitive' cases is possibly suspect in a country like Sweden.

 

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