H&M hoodie

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Hrolf The Ganger 09 Jan 18 7.29am
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Part of one, yes. Have a gold star. So why post it?
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Hrolf The Ganger

09 Jan 18 7.29am

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Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Part of one, yes. Have a gold star.

So why post it?

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DanH SW2 09 Jan 18 7.47am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Just because you call yourself a Progressive does not mean the policies you promote produce progress. I call progress getting to a point where people have enough self respect and maturity not to care about monkey hoodies. Maybe if white people hadn’t historically, and still do in some parts, used ‘monkey’ as a derigoratary term for black people then you would have your wish.
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DanH

SW2 09 Jan 18 7.47am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Just because you call yourself a Progressive does not mean the policies you promote produce progress.

I call progress getting to a point where people have enough self respect and maturity not to care about monkey hoodies.

Maybe if white people hadn’t historically, and still do in some parts, used ‘monkey’ as a derigoratary term for black people then you would have your wish.

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Hrolf The Ganger 09 Jan 18 7.54am
Originally posted by DanH Maybe if white people hadn’t historically, and still do in some parts, used ‘monkey’ as a derigoratary term for black people then you would have your wish. Well they have pea sized brains if they wish to insult people in such a way. For me, the answer is to ignore such nonsense rather than acknowledge it as people have in this example. I suspect that the press loves this stuff because it is cheap manufactured sensationalism that some people are dumb enough to be aggitated by. It is using immaturity to sell advertising.
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Hrolf The Ganger

09 Jan 18 7.54am

Originally posted by DanH

Maybe if white people hadn’t historically, and still do in some parts, used ‘monkey’ as a derigoratary term for black people then you would have your wish.

Well they have pea sized brains if they wish to insult people in such a way.

For me, the answer is to ignore such nonsense rather than acknowledge it as people have in this example.
I suspect that the press loves this stuff because it is cheap manufactured sensationalism that some people are dumb enough to be aggitated by. It is using immaturity to sell advertising.

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Lyons550 Shirley 09 Jan 18 9.15am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger This really demonstrates the absurdity of pandering to tiny minds. It beggars belief that a store has actually backed down and apologised for this. Someone has to draw a line and say no further. Clearly, some don't understand that if you keep giving ground then you will be giving it forever. The store is more concerned about their short term sales. [Link] Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (08 Jan 2018 4.49pm) Have to say i make them right...how the fcuk did this get approval to get out!? The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 09 Jan 18 9.15am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

This really demonstrates the absurdity of pandering to tiny minds.
It beggars belief that a store has actually backed down and apologised for this.
Someone has to draw a line and say no further. Clearly, some don't understand that if you keep giving ground then you will be giving it forever. The store is more concerned about their short term sales.

[Link]

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (08 Jan 2018 4.49pm)

Have to say i make them right...how the fcuk did this get approval to get out!?

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Hrolf The Ganger 09 Jan 18 9.27am
Originally posted by Lyons550 Have to say i make them right...how the fcuk did this get approval to get out!? Yes, if you want to perpetuate the association.
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Hrolf The Ganger

09 Jan 18 9.27am

Originally posted by Lyons550

Have to say i make them right...how the fcuk did this get approval to get out!?

Yes, if you want to perpetuate the association.

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Lyons550 Shirley 09 Jan 18 11.00am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Yes, if you want to perpetuate the association. I understand to a point where you're coming from Hrolf in that the word Monkey on the hoodie refers to an animal, but due to a backward minded minority there still IS that association. You're correct in that the association should be challenged...after all what else would we call...well a Monkey? But it's not the Monkey itself that's the issue....it is the association of decades possibly centuries of people using the term in a derogatory fashion. I'd sooner try and avoid causing offence but thinking the issue through first rather then willingly support / promote something that does due to a lack of forethought. I would still love to know how H&M thought anything other than the 'association' would be derived? The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 09 Jan 18 11.00am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Yes, if you want to perpetuate the association.

I understand to a point where you're coming from Hrolf in that the word Monkey on the hoodie refers to an animal, but due to a backward minded minority there still IS that association.

You're correct in that the association should be challenged...after all what else would we call...well a Monkey? But it's not the Monkey itself that's the issue....it is the association of decades possibly centuries of people using the term in a derogatory fashion.

I'd sooner try and avoid causing offence but thinking the issue through first rather then willingly support / promote something that does due to a lack of forethought.

I would still love to know how H&M thought anything other than the 'association' would be derived?

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Hrolf The Ganger 09 Jan 18 11.08am
Originally posted by Lyons550 I understand to a point where you're coming from Hrolf in that the word Monkey on the hoodie refers to an animal, but due to a backward minded minority there still IS that association. You're correct in that the association should be challenged...after all what else would we call...well a Monkey? But it's not the Monkey itself that's the issue....it is the association of decades possibly centuries of people using the term in a derogatory fashion. I'd sooner try and avoid causing offence but thinking the issue through first rather then willingly support / promote something that does due to a lack of forethought. I would still love to know how H&M thought anything other than the 'association' would be derived? My attitude is simply that at some point we have to move past this kind of stuff to reclaim the high ground. The alternative is to keep repeating the same cliches like Groundhog Day.
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Hrolf The Ganger

09 Jan 18 11.08am

Originally posted by Lyons550

I understand to a point where you're coming from Hrolf in that the word Monkey on the hoodie refers to an animal, but due to a backward minded minority there still IS that association.

I'd sooner try and avoid causing offence but thinking the issue through first rather then willingly support / promote something that does due to a lack of forethought.

I would still love to know how H&M thought anything other than the 'association' would be derived?

My attitude is simply that at some point we have to move past this kind of stuff to reclaim the high ground. The alternative is to keep repeating the same cliches like Groundhog Day.

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HeathMan Purley 09 Jan 18 11.18am
They weren't 'using' him. He was most likely from an agency after being placed there by his parents. I'm fairly sure that if they had objections, they would have voiced them at the time. Maybe they weren't so small minded as infer any derogatory overtone. Parents refer to their kids as little monkeys all the time. Only the really sad still relate it to a 'racial' slur. I tend to keep my Palace Supporter clothing for match-days - I behave according to the situation in which I find myself. Many parents will use the term "little monkey" to retell their child that she or he is being a little wayward. They are comfortable with that. That comfort should have been left in the home by those organising the H&M advertisement. In the same way those active often seem to forget that charity begins at home. an e-mail to the CEO or Sales Director of H&M is a more gentle (and perhaps more suitable) way of obtaining the response "oops, we have slipped - sorry"
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HeathMan

Purley 09 Jan 18 11.18am

They weren't 'using' him. He was most likely from an agency after being placed there by his parents.
I'm fairly sure that if they had objections, they would have voiced them at the time.
Maybe they weren't so small minded as infer any derogatory overtone. Parents refer to their kids as little monkeys all the time. Only the really sad still relate it to a 'racial' slur.

I tend to keep my Palace Supporter clothing for match-days - I behave according to the situation in which I find myself. Many parents will use the term "little monkey" to retell their child that she or he is being a little wayward. They are comfortable with that. That comfort should have been left in the home by those organising the H&M advertisement. In the same way those active often seem to forget that charity begins at home. an e-mail to the CEO or Sales Director of H&M is a more gentle (and perhaps more suitable) way of obtaining the response "oops, we have slipped - sorry"

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johnno42000 09 Jan 18 11.19am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger My attitude is simply that at some point we have to move past this kind of stuff to reclaim the high ground. The alternative is to keep repeating the same cliches like Groundhog Day. Surely you also have to be vigilant that the slurs don't come back and this advertisement can be perceived as a slur and will no doubt be used by the far right as some form of amusing thing. I remember quite vividly the monkey noises made by the Millwall scum when Hilaire played against them. 'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'
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johnno42000

09 Jan 18 11.19am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

My attitude is simply that at some point we have to move past this kind of stuff to reclaim the high ground. The alternative is to keep repeating the same cliches like Groundhog Day.

Surely you also have to be vigilant that the slurs don't come back and this advertisement can be perceived as a slur and will no doubt be used by the far right as some form of amusing thing. I remember quite vividly the monkey noises made by the Millwall scum when Hilaire played against them.

'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

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Hrolf The Ganger 09 Jan 18 11.26am
Originally posted by HeathMan They weren't 'using' him. He was most likely from an agency after being placed there by his parents. I'm fairly sure that if they had objections, they would have voiced them at the time. Maybe they weren't so small minded as infer any derogatory overtone. Parents refer to their kids as little monkeys all the time. Only the really sad still relate it to a 'racial' slur. I tend to keep my Palace Supporter clothing for match-days - I behave according to the situation in which I find myself. Many parents will use the term "little monkey" to retell their child that she or he is being a little wayward. They are comfortable with that. That comfort should have been left in the home by those organising the H&M advertisement. In the same way those active often seem to forget that charity begins at home. an e-mail to the CEO or Sales Director of H&M is a more gentle (and perhaps more suitable) way of obtaining the response "oops, we have slipped - sorry" Please don't tell me that you want to ban the public use of the word monkey. Can you not see what a slippery slope this is? Can you not see that people who get easily offended will just find a new thing to get offended by? It is all about attention seeking.
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Hrolf The Ganger

09 Jan 18 11.26am

Originally posted by HeathMan

Please don't tell me that you want to ban the public use of the word monkey.
Can you not see what a slippery slope this is?
Can you not see that people who get easily offended will just find a new thing to get offended by?
It is all about attention seeking.

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Lyons550 Shirley 09 Jan 18 11.26am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger My attitude is simply that at some point we have to move past this kind of stuff to reclaim the high ground. The alternative is to keep repeating the same cliches like Groundhog Day. Completely agree but we need to do that through education...which will simply take time and generations to water down. Society is already far far more self aware (with regards to racism for example) and what you and I would have uttered as kids no more than 30years ago without thought we wouldn't now, but it will take time. The one observation i'd make is where should the line be drawn? The issue raised on this thread is about Race which affects millions of people...but we're seeing more and more 'individuals' taking offence for personal and isolated issues that simply affect them and a minuscule number of others, and then calling for society to change in order to accommodate their values/wishes. The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 09 Jan 18 11.26am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

My attitude is simply that at some point we have to move past this kind of stuff to reclaim the high ground. The alternative is to keep repeating the same cliches like Groundhog Day.

Completely agree but we need to do that through education...which will simply take time and generations to water down.

Society is already far far more self aware (with regards to racism for example) and what you and I would have uttered as kids no more than 30years ago without thought we wouldn't now, but it will take time.

The one observation i'd make is where should the line be drawn? The issue raised on this thread is about Race which affects millions of people...but we're seeing more and more 'individuals' taking offence for personal and isolated issues that simply affect them and a minuscule number of others, and then calling for society to change in order to accommodate their values/wishes.

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Hrolf The Ganger 09 Jan 18 11.28am
Originally posted by johnno42000 Surely you also have to be vigilant that the slurs don't come back and this advertisement can be perceived as a slur and will no doubt be used by the far right as some form of amusing thing. I remember quite vividly the monkey noises made by the Millwall scum when Hilaire played against them. So because of a few idiots you want to ban the monkey? What next? Bananas? David Attenborough? Sigourney Weaver?
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Hrolf The Ganger

09 Jan 18 11.28am

Originally posted by johnno42000

So because of a few idiots you want to ban the monkey?

What next? Bananas? David Attenborough? Sigourney Weaver?

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