Soooo many character assumptions, polictical framing (this is no surprise, along with the same old tropes trotted out – 'huh huh, it's funny, because the only way I know how to discredit someone once I've run out of things to say is to paint them as a lefty, say that they smoke the spliffs and think imagine is a prophecy huh huh what a snowflake'.

I mean, come on. This is in no way exclusive to you or whatever side you identify with, but once again, no actual response to the debate at hand to be found. Let's keep things on topic shall we, and have a reasoned debate.

I never said fundamentalism didn't exist in islamic faith.

I also never said that it was or was not more or less prevalent in islamic faith.

All I said was, the same issues exist in almost every religion, and that not all muslims are fanatical. As for whether the islamic faith is more violent than others, yes you could quite easily make this assertion, especially these days. My comment was partly with a view to widen the debate a little, more into the realm of religion in general being a pain in the ass. Also partly to prevent this all remaining rather one eyed.

As per usual.

The earliest forms of warfare by Muslims occurred after the migration (hijra) of Muhammad and his small group of followers to Medina from Mecca and the conversion of several inhabitants of the city to Islam. At this time, Muslims had been persecuted and oppressed by the Meccans.[1] There were still Muslims who could not flee from Mecca and were still oppressed because of their faith. The Meccans also refused to let the Muslims enter Mecca and by that denied them access to the Ka'aba. Copied from wiki so could have been altered.

Muslims, have as you know SW19CPFC, been violent for centuries.

Edited by Park Road (15 Aug 2018 3.26pm)

In keeping with your attempts at oversimplification – Islam has indeed 'been violent' to different degrees since inception. So have many other religions. It's inherent in religion, and not in any way exclusive to Islam. I was also not making the point that Islam does not contain, or has never contained or led to violence.

Also as you're clearly trying to trip up the wording rather than debate the point, the level of violence also clearly fluctuates throughout history, and it also swings between different religions at different times. Hence my point around 'especially these days'.

This does not mean it is a new thing, or that it did not happen in the past. I'm not sure how you'd interpret it to mean as such. I also appreciate the irony of history being used here to make a point when it often gets dismissed when making points elsewhere around this topic.

I understand the apparent need to always paint islam as the most oppressive, violent faith. In some cases, you'd certainly have an argument. Not in all. But it's important to contextualise opinion and belief, otherwise you risk sounding incredibly short sighted and ignorant. It also does not help debate.

So, facts are great. Especially when used to make or support a point. They are however a little like statistics, with regards to how they're framed, selectively used and or just plain ignored.

When debating, it's also useful to understand what the other person is saying. I never said you were oversimplifying facts. I was referring to your constant stream of unhelpfully oversimplistic lines of argument whilst attempting to join this debate.

It's also telling that you've ignored the points being made and zeroed in on something completely unrelated.

The earliest forms of warfare by Muslims occurred after the migration (hijra) of Muhammad and his small group of followers to Medina from Mecca and the conversion of several inhabitants of the city to Islam. At this time, Muslims had been persecuted and oppressed by the Meccans.[1] There were still Muslims who could not flee from Mecca and were still oppressed because of their faith. The Meccans also refused to let the Muslims enter Mecca and by that denied them access to the Ka'aba. Copied from wiki so could have been altered.

Muslims, have as you know SW19CPFC, been violent for centuries.

Edited by Park Road (15 Aug 2018 3.26pm)

So, facts are great. Especially when used to make or support a point. They are however a little like statistics, with regards to how they're framed, selectively used and or just plain ignored.

When debating, it's also useful to understand what the other person is saying. I never said you were oversimplifying facts. I was referring to your constant stream of unhelpfully oversimplistic lines of argument whilst attempting to join this debate.

It's also telling that you've ignored the points being made and zeroed in on something completely unrelated.