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August 22 2019 9.53pm

South Africa

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View Mr Palaceman's Profile Mr Palaceman Flag 31 Aug 18 12.31am Send a Private Message to Mr Palaceman Add Mr Palaceman as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


Yet in Zimbabwe they just carried on regardless.

Destroyed their own country..... what was once the bread basket of Africa became a country that relied on food aid.

Africa is just one story of disaster after another.

Some people might begin to wander if it has something to do with IQ......weird how the graphs of IQ and wealth seem to correlate.

Some people might say that the idealogs have been lying to us and themselves for decades.....because they want the world to be one way when it's another.

Why is it that Africa just gets lumped into one big country, despite it being one on the most diverse continants on the planet. Would you compare peasants on donkeys in Hungary with city workers in London? That's how people talk when it comes to Africa. Your not the only one, it happens a lot in the media aswell.

Africa is the 2nd largest continant in the world, covering the 2nd largest land mass. There are many countries with different rates of developement and is currently right up there with the best places to invest in the world. Even growth rates in the poorest regions of sub-saharan Africa are an average of 3% + and if you look at countries like Ghana then it is even higher at around 8.5% up from 5% last year. Leading economists, the IMF and World bank all state that high grow rates will contiunue in many African countries for at least another decade. This even after the 2014 comodities crash.

Ethiopia for instance is currently the third-fastest growing country of 10 million or more people in the world, GDP is now 5 times what it was even in 2011, China being top. Ethiopia also has a young population that is highly educated and tech savvy. It is also one country that despite many attempts by Europeans at the time to invade, enslave and exploit, has never been colonised. Unfortunately for Italy, they were "given" Ethiopia as their patch of Africa, only to be kicked out by a well equipped and tactically skilled Ethiopian army and it has remained an African country in the true sense ever since. Other African countries did not fare as well.

In relation to the bread basket of Africa that was long ago, before European countries decided they wanted a piece of the pie (or loaf) and I believe that truly ended when the IMF and World Bank offered many "developing" nations cheap loans, with conditions on international trade for those countries. Only after the loans were taken out, they hiked up interest rates to deal with domestic inflation in the U.S. to levels that meant those countries where unable to pay back monies borrowed and then they were forced to take out more loans in order to pay off the interest or face Bankruptcy. Then came the debt crisis and those countries have been paying ever since. Add corrupt politicians, funded by western companies in order to continue the money making status quo and you have the recipe for exploitation and now the Chinese have caught on.

I'm not pretending that Africa as a continant is some kind of uptopia any more than Europe or any other continant and there are certainly some african countries that are in serious problems, due solely to the corrupt nature of their leaders. Equatorial Guinea comes to mind but in rural China, the fastest growing and second largest economy in the world, millions go hungry and corruption is rife in some places and yet I don't see "poverty p***." adverts stating that just £3 a month will buy pork and rice for a chinese child.

It would be silly, post brexit, for the U.K. not to invest in the most investable region on the planet and yet you chose to describe the entire continant as "just one story of disaster after another".

The world is investing in African countries right now due to their huge natural resourses and in many countries, young educated populations. I'm not saying that you or anyone else who has posted on this thread is pushing an agenda but I believe that there are some that prefer to push the narrative of starving African children with flies around there mouths, lead by utterly corrupt leaders, which is not the case when discussing Africa as a whole.

 


"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead"

Stan Laurel

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 31 Aug 18 1.42am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

Why is it that Africa just gets lumped into one big country, despite it being one on the most diverse continants on the planet. Would you compare peasants on donkeys in Hungary with city workers in London? That's how people talk when it comes to Africa. Your not the only one, it happens a lot in the media aswell.

The reason I can quite confidently lump Africa together with a lot of criticism is because actually it isn't that diverse. Many of its countries share the same common problems, just to differing degrees.

We only have seven continents, of which only five have significant populations. (I'm going to discount Australia and Antarctica due to the relative small populations given land size)

Europe
North America
South America
Asia
Africa

In terms of those continents I seriously have to question your suggestion that Africa is more 'diverse' than any of those.....Certainly racially.

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

Africa is the 2nd largest continant in the world, covering the 2nd largest land mass. There are many countries with different rates of developement and is currently right up there with the best places to invest in the world. Even growth rates in the poorest regions of sub-saharan Africa are an average of 3% + and if you look at countries like Ghana then it is even higher at around 8.5% up from 5% last year. Leading economists, the IMF and World bank all state that high grow rates will contiunue in many African countries for at least another decade. This even after the 2014 comodities crash.

You appear to not understand that extremely poor countries can have high growth rates yet remain deeply poverty ridden.

Even small investments in these countries is going to result in significant growth when previous investment is so low.

Africa is by far the poorest population dense continent on this earth. That's what happens when the number of people with reasonable IQs is too low to maintain stable and rule based non tribal institutions.

Africa literally had to have them set up by frigging foreigners....and when they left they fell by the wayside.


Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

Ethiopia for instance is currently the third-fastest growing country of 10 million or more people in the world, GDP is now 5 times what it was even in 2011, China being top. Ethiopia also has a young population that is highly educated and tech savvy. It is also one country that despite many attempts by Europeans at the time to invade, enslave and exploit, has never been colonised. Unfortunately for Italy, they were "given" Ethiopia as their patch of Africa, only to be kicked out by a well equipped and tactically skilled Ethiopian army and it has remained an African country in the true sense ever since. Other African countries did not fare as well.

Ethiopia did indeed have parts of it colonized......what are these previous failed 'attempts' you are talking about?

Both the Italians and British colonized parts of what is now known as Ethiopia. The eastern region of Ethiopia, at that time, was colonized by the British for example.

Interestingly while Italy were there in 36-41 they abolished slavery in Ethiopia freeing over 400,000 slaves....Showing that even a fascist state could run Ethiopia in a more civilized fashion than they could themselves.

As for the Ethiopians kicking Italy out, In 1941, the British defeated the Italian forces and occupied Italian East Africa. Britain returned Haile Selassie to power and pressured him to mirrorís Italyís abrogation of slavery if he wanted to maintain Britainís support.

As for the growth rate, again, this is due to incredibly low economic bases and in reality most of the growth is coming because of external investment.

Africa is a continent that relies on food aid and foreign investment.


Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

In relation to the bread basket of Africa that was long ago, before European countries decided they wanted a piece of the pie (or loaf) and I believe that truly ended when the IMF and World Bank offered many "developing" nations cheap loans, with conditions on international trade for those countries. Only after the loans were taken out, they hiked up interest rates to deal with domestic inflation in the U.S. to levels that meant those countries where unable to pay back monies borrowed and then they were forced to take out more loans in order to pay off the interest or face Bankruptcy. Then came the debt crisis and those countries have been paying ever since. Add corrupt politicians, funded by western companies in order to continue the money making status quo and you have the recipe for exploitation and now the Chinese have caught on.


The fact that Africa contains incredibly poorly run countries isn't the fault of the IMF nor any other 'bank'.

The fact that countries full of corrupt elite fools get exploited by arsehole banks is a bit like complaining about the fact that sharks attack the defenceless. I will agree that this is unethical yet this is nature and Africa itself contains few examples of ethical history itself.

'The Strong Do What They Can, And The Weak Suffer What They Must.' (Thucydides)


Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

I'm not pretending that Africa as a continant is some kind of uptopia any more than Europe or any other continant and there are certainly some african countries that are in serious problems, due solely to the corrupt nature of their leaders. Equatorial Guinea comes to mind but in rural China, the fastest growing and second largest economy in the world, millions go hungry and corruption is rife in some places and yet I don't see "poverty p***." adverts stating that just £3 a month will buy pork and rice for a chinese child.

It would be silly, post brexit, for the U.K. not to invest in the most investable region on the planet and yet you chose to describe the entire continant as "just one story of disaster after another".

The world is investing in African countries right now due to their huge natural resourses and in many countries, young educated populations. I'm not saying that you or anyone else who has posted on this thread is pushing an agenda but I believe that there are some that prefer to push the narrative of starving African children with flies around there mouths, lead by utterly corrupt leaders, which is not the case when discussing Africa as a whole.

Africa does have potential because its so open to exploitation and has so many elites who care little for their underclass and far more about feathering their nests......I've already made the point about incredibly low economic bases and growth rates and also about the fact that is growth isn't Africa's work but via external investment....which isn't being done for charity I might add and as you no doubt appreicate.

Africa is a disaster, not only to itself but for wider humanity as we only have to turn to it to observe how poorly the relatively dim 'kid' get treated in the classroom of the real world.

Personally I would be very very careful with any investment in Africa. These are not countries with stable institutions......Your suggestion that Africa can point to an educated workforce is laughable in comparison to any other major continent.


Edited by Stirlingsays (31 Aug 2018 2.20am)

 

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View Mr Palaceman's Profile Mr Palaceman Flag 31 Aug 18 1.51am Send a Private Message to Mr Palaceman Add Mr Palaceman as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Africa has been progressed by accessing the technology and development of other cultures.

God knows where Africa would be otherwise.

The gulf between the Africans and Europeans when we first went over there was night and day.

I would say that Europe and this country in particular has progressed by accessing the resoures, wealth, manpower, trading systems and culture of some African nations. That continues to this day.

African history did not start or end with the slave trade.

There was a gulf in the 19th century, in military terms, on the west coast and South Africa.

 


"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead"

Stan Laurel

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 31 Aug 18 1.53am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

I would say that Europe and this country in particular has progressed by accessing the resoures, wealth, manpower, trading systems and culture of some African nations. That continues to this day.

African history did not start or end with the slave trade.

There was a gulf in the 19th century, in military terms, on the west coast and South Africa.

Delusion.

This country and the European continent progressed far faster than Africa from as far back as Rome.

We sky rocketed away during and after the enlightenment and its subsequent scientific investments and culture.....just as we continue to now....What is Africa producing in intellectual capital for the world?

Look at South East Asia.....societies with higher average IQs that follow rules whilst allowing for innovation succeed....with or without past western colonialism.

The exploitation of Africa happened but it was a footnote in the development of this country and Europe.

Edited by Stirlingsays (31 Aug 2018 3.51am)

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 31 Aug 18 7.43am Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

That surprises me as she has been putting immigrants in cages for years in the UK.

FFS I worked for Immigration for many years and never saw anything that resembled a cage. Do you mean detention? Should no immigrant be detained? What about the drug runners,paedos,rapists? And yes, illegal immigrants have broken the law as well, but believe me there are thousands more not detained than are detained.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 31 Aug 18 7.52am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

I would say that Europe and this country in particular has progressed by accessing the resoures, wealth, manpower, trading systems and culture of some African nations. That continues to this day.

African history did not start or end with the slave trade.

There was a gulf in the 19th century, in military terms, on the west coast and South Africa.

This country? So it's all Britain's fault?

How surprising that you would have that opinion.

Total nonsense of course.

Africa has been exploited by just about everyone because it has not progressed in part or as a whole for thousands of years. Exploitation is a direct result of the lack of development, not the other way around.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 31 Aug 18 9.49am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Guys, you are all forgetting about the stand out country in Africa, Wakanda. We could learn so much from that technology advanced nation.

Africa's problems are complex one solution (not THE solution)is to allow Africa better trade access to the EU instead of shutting out many of it's products. I hope that PM May does this once we Brexit.

Edited by Badger11 (31 Aug 2018 9.50am)

 


One more point

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 31 Aug 18 10.00am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Guys, you are all forgetting about the stand out country in Africa, Wakanda. We could learn so much from that technology advanced nation.

Africa's problems are complex one solution (not THE solution)is to allow Africa better trade access to the EU instead of shutting out many of it's products. I hope that PM May does this once we Brexit.

Edited by Badger11 (31 Aug 2018 9.50am)

I think it needs to be understood that if all the world's third world countries became developed it would use up Earth's resources in a blink.

It is a dream that can never happen.

 

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View Penge Eagle's Profile Penge Eagle Flag Beckenham 31 Aug 18 11.27am Send a Private Message to Penge Eagle Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Penge Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Guys, you are all forgetting about the stand out country in Africa, Wakanda.

Edited by Badger11 (31 Aug 2018 9.50am)

Hollywood didn't realise Wakanda has a great big wall keeping out illegal immigrants Trump would be proud of.

Edited by Penge Eagle (31 Aug 2018 11.27am)

 

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View johnno42000's Profile johnno42000 Flag 31 Aug 18 12.49pm Send a Private Message to johnno42000 Add johnno42000 as a friend

Isn't one of the boosts to a peoples progressing cross pollination of ideas? Rome has been mentioned but they had a lot of ideas from Greece and other countries around the Med.

Likewise a lot of information that was lost during the Dark Ages was saved within the Arab world and then re-introduced when the Moors invaded Spain.

Likewise, in the Far East, China was a leader in ideas and passed them on through contact with other civilisations.

We have been fortunate to have received new ideas, skills etc from being invaded and have taken these and added to them.

To say Southern Africa had not progressed as rapidly as other areas is probably true (the same with the North American Indians and Aboriginal tribes in Australia) but I think that is mainly due to the fact there was little (if any) contact with the world outside of that area, although they did create some amazing structures such as Great Zimbabwe, Naletale etc.

There are also some beautiful artefacts which have been found that are easily on a par with that found in the UK up to the early Middle Ages. Gold working, statues, carvings etc. Perhaps they just found their level and could live contentedly at that point?

 


'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

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View Penge Eagle's Profile Penge Eagle Flag Beckenham 31 Aug 18 1.24pm Send a Private Message to Penge Eagle Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Penge Eagle as a friend

More people than ever are coming out of poverty in Africa and it's because of the free market and capitalism. Life expectancy has risen dramatically also. Many of the African governments operated under a centralised, socialist system and have finally broken away from it, with a lot of red tape slashed for new businesses also.

However, it is also true to say that only a handful of African countries are not corrupt (Benin, Botswana, Ghana, Namibia, Senegal). The Marxist and racist policies of South Africa is not only going to cause a lot of deaths but economic catastrophe also, while the the rest of the world just watches. If Theresa the Appeaser had any balls, she would tell the South African leader to clean up this racist mess against the whites and we will then trade with you.

Edited by Penge Eagle (31 Aug 2018 1.28pm)

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 31 Aug 18 1.50pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Penge Eagle

More people than ever are coming out of poverty in Africa and it's because of the free market and capitalism. Life expectancy has risen dramatically also. Many of the African governments operated under a centralised, socialist system and have finally broken away from it, with a lot of red tape slashed for new businesses also.

However, it is also true to say that only a handful of African countries are not corrupt (Benin, Botswana, Ghana, Namibia, Senegal). The Marxist and racist policies of South Africa is not only going to cause a lot of deaths but economic catastrophe also, while the the rest of the world just watches. If Theresa the Appeaser had any balls, she would tell the South African leader to clean up this racist mess against the whites and we will then trade with you.

Edited by Penge Eagle (31 Aug 2018 1.28pm)

Mrs May does not find South Africa marxist or racist (unlike her 'hostile environment') she is re-discovering Africa after the UK left it behind.

Nothing doing there, and the Kenyan PM expresses what Africa thinks, that she is only visiting because she is desperate.

The old colonial masters return with the begging bowl.

Under the EU foul regime I have continued to enjoy South African wines as they are good quality and value thanks to the single market.

To suggest South Africa is 'marxist' is utter nonsense.

 

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