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March 22 2019 10.45am

7 Labour MPs Quit

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View ChrisGC's Profile ChrisGC Flag Wantage 20 Feb 19 6.04pm Send a Private Message to ChrisGC Add ChrisGC as a friend

What concerns me about this is that they actually believe there is a widespread desire for a centrist party demanding a second referendum. There isn't. In my opinion, people fall into the following broad boxes:
1) Militant Lefty Communist prats. Mostly agitators like Owen Jones, McDonnell etc and 'rebellious' students. Maturity usually sorts these out into the following:
2) Middle-class lefties. So long as you're saying the socially acceptable things, they'll vote for you.
3) Common sense, normal working people often mistakenly referred to as right wing
4) Other nutters. Ranging from tree shagging hippies to racist, dangerous far actual far right people.

Labour are no longer the party of the working class and are actively targeting the benefits brigade.

Who the f*** out of the above are going to buy what they're selling? Category 2 is clearly the target, but I'm not sure they have the numbers they'd need even if they could get the support of them all.

A new party targeting category 3 is where there's opportunity to my mind.

Edited by ChrisGC (20 Feb 2019 6.35pm)

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 20 Feb 19 6.14pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

What concerns me about this is that they actually believe there is a widespread desire for a centrist party demanding a second referendum. There isn't. In my opinion, people fall into the following broad boxes:
1) Militant Lefty Communist prats. Mostly agitators like Owen Jones, McDonnell etc and 'rebellious' students. Maturity usually soughts these out into the following:
2) Middle-class lefties. So long as you're saying the socially acceptable things, they'll vote for you.
3) Common sense, normal working people often mistakenly referred to as right wing
4) Other nutters. Ranging from tree shagging hippies to racist, dangerous far actual far right people.

Labour are no longer the party of the working class and are actively targeting the benefits brigade.

Who the f*** out of the above are going to buy what they're selling? Category 2 is clearly the target, but I'm not sure they have the numbers they'd need even if they could get the support of them all.

A new party targeting category 3 is where there's opportunity to my mind.

This is the absolute pits of political debate - ‘mine is the common sense view for normal people’.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View ChrisGC's Profile ChrisGC Flag Wantage 20 Feb 19 6.17pm Send a Private Message to ChrisGC Add ChrisGC as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

This is the absolute pits of political debate - ‘mine is the common sense view for normal people’.

You're a category one, aren't you?

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 20 Feb 19 6.23pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

You're a category one, aren't you?

I’m just a normal guy who uses common sense.

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (20 Feb 2019 6.24pm)

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View ChrisGC's Profile ChrisGC Flag Wantage 20 Feb 19 6.26pm Send a Private Message to ChrisGC Add ChrisGC as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I’m just a normal guy who uses common sense.

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (20 Feb 2019 6.24pm)

Cat 3 then, Good lad.

Edited by ChrisGC (20 Feb 2019 6.34pm)

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 21 Feb 19 7.36am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

What concerns me about this is that they actually believe there is a widespread desire for a centrist party demanding a second referendum. There isn't. In my opinion, people fall into the following broad boxes:
1) Militant Lefty Communist prats. Mostly agitators like Owen Jones, McDonnell etc and 'rebellious' students. Maturity usually sorts these out into the following:
2) Middle-class lefties. So long as you're saying the socially acceptable things, they'll vote for you.
3) Common sense, normal working people often mistakenly referred to as right wing
4) Other nutters. Ranging from tree shagging hippies to racist, dangerous far actual far right people.

Labour are no longer the party of the working class and are actively targeting the benefits brigade.

Who the f*** out of the above are going to buy what they're selling? Category 2 is clearly the target, but I'm not sure they have the numbers they'd need even if they could get the support of them all.

A new party targeting category 3 is where there's opportunity to my mind.

Edited by ChrisGC (20 Feb 2019 6.35pm)

One of the Tory MPs claims the party has been hijacked by UKIP and that MPS are afraid of the extremists in the local party. What she meant of course was leavers, well she is forgetting the vast majority of Tory voters are leavers. She is the one out of step with the electoral support for the Tory party.

The independent group is pro Remain and there is a place in politics for that view. However what else does this group have in common? Asking for a 2nd referendum whilst denying your own voters a by election smacks of self serving and I suspect that many will see it as that.

My guess is that at the next GE these people will go the same way as the SDP and will lose their seats or migrate into the Lib Dems.


This will only be an issue if the independent group grows substantially. Right now it is a group of disgruntled politicians who have no clear policies or aims beyond Remain. I think if there was a public appetite for a new third way the Lib Dems would be mopping up.

As for what happens now in parliament well I think this helps Mrs May and Corbyn they no longer have to pander to these people who were always going to vote against any Brexit deal.

 


One more point

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 21 Feb 19 7.55am Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Why didn't this bunch just join the lib dems?

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 21 Feb 19 8.16am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Why didn't this bunch just join the lib dems?

Exactly.

Most politicians love to kid themselves that "they" are the reason why they are elected when actually most voters would struggle to name their MP. Shave a monkey put the right colour rosette on and you have an MP.

60% of the voters in Anna Soubry's constituency voted to leave. At the next GE where does she think her votes are coming from? In the Tory party betrayal is the ultimate sin so she will automatically lose loads of votes for that.

It's not impossible to succeed but I do think that today's MPs over play their own importance, they are party drones so take the party away and you have an empty suit.

As for the future it's easy to be a rebel and be against but what are you for and why is that any different from the Lib Dems? And if you are aligned to the Lib Dems why are the public not voting for that?

 


One more point

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View Red Al's Profile Red Al Flag Reading 21 Feb 19 8.28am Send a Private Message to Red Al Add Red Al as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


"Labour is championing their interests at the expense of the traditional voter.
It is not surprising that a party wishes to get elected but everyone should understand that if you are White and working class you no longer matter."

Do you have any evidence to support that claim? Which Labour policies are designed to help immigrants but not the "white working class"? Are the interests of the "white working class" different from the "black working class" or even just the "working class"?

Edited by Red Al (21 Feb 2019 8.29am)

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View ChrisGC's Profile ChrisGC Flag Wantage 21 Feb 19 8.29am Send a Private Message to ChrisGC Add ChrisGC as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

One of the Tory MPs claims the party has been hijacked by UKIP and that MPS are afraid of the extremists in the local party. What she meant of course was leavers, well she is forgetting the vast majority of Tory voters are leavers. She is the one out of step with the electoral support for the Tory party.

The independent group is pro Remain and there is a place in politics for that view. However what else does this group have in common? Asking for a 2nd referendum whilst denying your own voters a by election smacks of self serving and I suspect that many will see it as that.

My guess is that at the next GE these people will go the same way as the SDP and will lose their seats or migrate into the Lib Dems.


This will only be an issue if the independent group grows substantially. Right now it is a group of disgruntled politicians who have no clear policies or aims beyond Remain. I think if there was a public appetite for a new third way the Lib Dems would be mopping up.

As for what happens now in parliament well I think this helps Mrs May and Corbyn they no longer have to pander to these people who were always going to vote against any Brexit deal.

I looked at their constituency figures and 4 of the 8 have slim majorities in Leave constituencies.

Soubry has committed career suicide. A leave borough and only 800 majority.

Chuka thinks he's safe with a 19k majority in an 80% remain borough, but he's not. You could run a donkey in a red cap and it will always win there. I expect Labour to put forward a black/Asian candidate and take that back, nobody likes a turncoat.

The good thing is, they've probably ensured no deal. They surely have to abstain from the vote on the deal making it nigh impossible for May to get the numbers.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View ChrisGC's Profile ChrisGC Flag Wantage 21 Feb 19 8.31am Send a Private Message to ChrisGC Add ChrisGC as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Exactly.

Most politicians love to kid themselves that "they" are the reason why they are elected when actually most voters would struggle to name their MP. Shave a monkey put the right colour rosette on and you have an MP.

60% of the voters in Anna Soubry's constituency voted to leave. At the next GE where does she think her votes are coming from? In the Tory party betrayal is the ultimate sin so she will automatically lose loads of votes for that.

It's not impossible to succeed but I do think that today's MPs over play their own importance, they are party drones so take the party away and you have an empty suit.

As for the future it's easy to be a rebel and be against but what are you for and why is that any different from the Lib Dems? And if you are aligned to the Lib Dems why are the public not voting for that?

Great post.

All of these MPs are active on twitter. I think they've taken their echo chamber as a true reflection on public feeling. Very silly

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag 21 Feb 19 10.24am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

I really wouldn't be surprised if the 'Band of 11' were joined by some more second referendum remainers in the coming days and weeks.

Going back a few years the 'Gang of four' caused a split, thus far the defectors have merely caused a splinter.

Edited by Willo (21 Feb 2019 10.32am)

 

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