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March 20 2019 11.19pm

Rise in violent crime

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 05 Mar 19 5.00pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The useful idiots of the Left.

Programmed to screw themselves.

Yep, you have the NPCs and you have the more intelligent ones.

It is as it ever was.....but we now mostly just have the lefty trolls on Hol....taking advantage of the kind of free speech ethics that their side doesn't offer anymore.

When it comes to the self hating stuff. I think it's a reality that some of them just believe in the old egalitarian arguments and still think it's all going to be ok.

Word Up and Maple are the only regular lefty contributors who have an intellectual ability worth engaging with.

 

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View Pussay Patrol's Profile Pussay Patrol Flag 05 Mar 19 5.07pm Send a Private Message to Pussay Patrol Add Pussay Patrol as a friend

Originally posted by W12

You very unskillfully avoided all my questions.

Anyway let me generally summarize this thread.

The lefties believe this is because of austerity and/or police cuts rather than because of people deciding it's OK to stick knives into each other or throw acid at each other (which wasn't even a "thing" until recently). This is despite the evidence that public spending is more than ever as so is the national debt. I would concede here that police numbers have fallen significantly and this is not helping but then again there is the fact that people going into the police these days have generally not even been in a pub fight and have their hands tied by political correctness, limits on stop and search and senior officers more focused on their own careers and our old friend "diversity".

The sane majority believe that may well be related to a net £250,000 coming into the country per year (the number of people now leaving the country may also be a clue) and a complete lack of personal responsibility in many "communities" plus any form of shared identify or social contract. It's not just their fault by the way (though it largely is). Our society has allowed and encouraged this. People like you.

And the answer to knife crime is to spend more of other peoples money?

This isn't about left or right opinion, the commissioner of police has stated it

Why do you defend cuts to public services? You want there to be less police? You want to have less money put into schools and the NHS?

Or perhaps someone could argue how less police decreases crime? Much like when Boris Johnson tried to argue less firefighters improved the service

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Mar 19 5.11pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

This isn't about left or right opinion, the commissioner of police has stated it

Why do you defend cuts to public services? You want there to be less police? You want to have less money put into schools and the NHS?

Or perhaps someone could argue how less police decreases crime? Much like when Boris Johnson tried to argue less firefighters improved the service

Lord above. When are the Police ever going to say that they don't want more funding?

It is not about chasing people about with truncheons.
Crime prevention is more and more about technology.

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Online Flag Addiscombe 05 Mar 19 5.18pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle


Whilst not exclusively, these are in general problems created by the black community. This is not racist opinion. Its fact which stats back up.

You don't get these problems on the streets of East Grinstead, Guildford or Horsham.

You don't find large numbers of Indians, Jews, Irish or Poles stabbing each other.Just the black community.

You can blame the Tories or anyone else you like however its not them taking 3 inches of steel and shoving it in someones neck.

I'd argue it's perhaps more a class/poverty issue rather than simply all to do with race. I'm not saying culture doesn't play a role but even that of itself is born from poverty to some extent – 'imported culture' from Jamaica etc. – yes, from very poor areas. Jamaica is not exactly a symbol of wealth.

An interesting question is – 'How many murders in Glasgow were related to the Black community?'

I hadn't really thought about this until challenging my own preconceptions on this issue yesterday.

'A bad year in Glasgow, 2005, saw 40 murders’ with a population of 600,000, ‘making a Glaswegian in that year twice as likely to be killed as a black Londoner’.

Now I'm not saying that this is all right and every other point of view put forward on this thread is wrong, but I am saying that it's not as simple as it's all because of this'. Excuse the pun, but it's not as simple as 'black and white'. That much is clear.

 


said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 05 Mar 19 5.28pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I'd argue it's perhaps more a class/poverty issue rather than simply all to do with race. I'm not saying culture doesn't play a role but even that of itself is born from poverty to some extent – 'imported culture' from Jamaica etc. – yes, from very poor areas. Jamaica is not exactly a symbol of wealth.

An interesting question is – 'How many murders in Glasgow were related to the Black community?'

I hadn't really thought about this until challenging my own preconceptions on this issue yesterday.

'A bad year in Glasgow, 2005, saw 40 murders’ with a population of 600,000, ‘making a Glaswegian in that year twice as likely to be killed as a black Londoner’.

Now I'm not saying that this is all right and every other point of view put forward on this thread is wrong, but I am saying that it's not as simple as it's all because of this'. Excuse the pun, but it's not as simple as 'black and white'. That much is clear.


It isn't a nice reality and sure there are other factors and class/poverty does matter.....but if we are interested in reality we can't ignore it or cherry pick.

How many examples do you have after Glasgow? Also, one year is not representative. When you look at a list of the areas that produce the highest crime the reality is right there.

We know that these statistics can be taken and compared, not only at a city level.....but at a national level....at all levels.

The same reality surfaces.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Mar 2019 5.30pm)

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Mar 19 5.36pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I'd argue it's perhaps more a class/poverty issue rather than simply all to do with race. I'm not saying culture doesn't play a role but even that of itself is born from poverty to some extent – 'imported culture' from Jamaica etc. – yes, from very poor areas. Jamaica is not exactly a symbol of wealth.

An interesting question is – 'How many murders in Glasgow were related to the Black community?'

I hadn't really thought about this until challenging my own preconceptions on this issue yesterday.

'A bad year in Glasgow, 2005, saw 40 murders’ with a population of 600,000, ‘making a Glaswegian in that year twice as likely to be killed as a black Londoner’.

Now I'm not saying that this is all right and every other point of view put forward on this thread is wrong, but I am saying that it's not as simple as it's all because of this'. Excuse the pun, but it's not as simple as 'black and white'. That much is clear.

Not Glasgow again.

They have sectarian problems. Guess why.

Of course there are always socioeconomic factors to crime but that changes nothing.

 

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View Pussay Patrol's Profile Pussay Patrol Flag 05 Mar 19 6.17pm Send a Private Message to Pussay Patrol Add Pussay Patrol as a friend

Poverty is another big factor, years of austerity forcing people into poverty, Resorting to food banks and inevitably increase in crime as people become more desperate

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 05 Mar 19 6.19pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

The problem with these aspects is that they are only meaningful at the generalised level.

It's an area of massive sensitivity and it challenges notions many people have of aspects of egalitarianism.

However, I'd agree that this topic comes with many factors. Some believe different factors are more important than others.

Some are easier to discuss than others.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 05 Mar 19 6.23pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

When people talk about poverty they do....have a point.

However, statistics don't support them on levels from different groups. Poverty exists for all groups.....but crime rate levels aren't the same for them.

Also when it comes to violent crime.....

 

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 05 Mar 19 6.28pm Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I'd argue it's perhaps more a class/poverty issue rather than simply all to do with race. I'm not saying culture doesn't play a role but even that of itself is born from poverty to some extent – 'imported culture' from Jamaica etc. – yes, from very poor areas. Jamaica is not exactly a symbol of wealth.

An interesting question is – 'How many murders in Glasgow were related to the Black community?'

I hadn't really thought about this until challenging my own preconceptions on this issue yesterday.

'A bad year in Glasgow, 2005, saw 40 murders’ with a population of 600,000, ‘making a Glaswegian in that year twice as likely to be killed as a black Londoner’.

Now I'm not saying that this is all right and every other point of view put forward on this thread is wrong, but I am saying that it's not as simple as it's all because of this'. Excuse the pun, but it's not as simple as 'black and white'. That much is clear.

So why, back in 50's, when poverty was so much worse and class divide so much more prevalent were there far fewer stabbings amongst young people? (OK, you had the organised gangs who fought each other, but they were relatively contained). The answer, in my opinion, lies in discipline - sitting a 3 year old on the naughty step is fine, but using that and reasoning for a 15 year old, testosterone fueled youth, who knows that any redress will be little more than a slap on the wrist and a police 'warning' is no deterrent. Even 'life' often means back on the streets in 4 years.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 05 Mar 19 6.38pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by becky

So why, back in 50's, when poverty was so much worse and class divide so much more prevalent were there far fewer stabbings amongst young people? (OK, you had the organised gangs who fought each other, but they were relatively contained). The answer, in my opinion, lies in discipline - sitting a 3 year old on the naughty step is fine, but using that and reasoning for a 15 year old, testosterone fueled youth, who knows that any redress will be little more than a slap on the wrist and a police 'warning' is no deterrent. Even 'life' often means back on the streets in 4 years.


Yep, there are definitely cultural aspects.....the loss of the father in significant.

The demise of social conservatism in these upbringings as reliance on welfare increased.....and unfortunately yes, as much as I am an atheist...the loss of religion as a form of moral backstop.

The downsides of well meaning liberalism.....not an easy topic to discuss either.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Mar 2019 6.39pm)

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 05 Mar 19 6.49pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by becky

So why, back in 50's, when poverty was so much worse and class divide so much more prevalent were there far fewer stabbings amongst young people? (OK, you had the organised gangs who fought each other, but they were relatively contained). The answer, in my opinion, lies in discipline - sitting a 3 year old on the naughty step is fine, but using that and reasoning for a 15 year old, testosterone fueled youth, who knows that any redress will be little more than a slap on the wrist and a police 'warning' is no deterrent. Even 'life' often means back on the streets in 4 years.

Back in the 90's actually, quite recently, we never had this problem.

But it is too difficult for any tory to admit it.

Brexit means they don't have to bother with other things like crime.


 

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