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September 17 2019 10.26am

The immigration thread

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 17 Apr 19 12.02am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Park Road

Pitty, you might have learnt something about tolerance, acceptance and good music.

They have already interfered with many lives being the UK's biggest ever export.

There's hardly a country that doesn't have a skinhead sub culture whether the original one, or the nasty bonehead one.

I have feeling you have never had an interest in any sub culture. Sub cultures are all nearly started by working class youth - something. I believe you were not

Only a white middle/upper class snob would show no interest in such a amazing thing.

Well as long as they didn't/don't interfere with your life that's ok


Edited by Park Road (16 Apr 2019 11.12pm)

I come from a 100% working class background, was brought up on a council estate and left school at 16 because my Mum wanted the extra cash and thought higher education a waste of time. I never had the time or the money to even contemplate sub cultures in my teens and as I married very young was soon too busy bringing up a family and putting bread on their table.

I always regarded such things as the selfish indulgence of people with too much time and/or money on their hands. It was never for me and I remain very happy that it wasn't. I have my interests and am still actively playing, at 74, a sport I love.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 17 Apr 19 12.13am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I come from a 100% working class background, was brought up on a council estate and left school at 16 because my Mum wanted the extra cash and thought higher education a waste of time. I never had the time or the money to even contemplate sub cultures in my teens and as I married very young was soon too busy bringing up a family and putting bread on their table.

I always regarded such things as the selfish indulgence of people with too much time and/or money on their hands. It was never for me and I remain very happy that it wasn't. I have my interests and am still actively playing, at 74, a sport I love.

But nearly everyone is part of a sub culture. There is a reason why so many middle aged men dress the way they do. To fit in. Teenagers are no different just more discriminating in their choice of group with which they identify.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 17 Apr 19 12.18am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


Because of idiots from the extremes of politics.

There is clearly no difference between White and Black pride.

It is racist to believe otherwise.

You can't justify penalising one demographic simply because at one brief time in history some of them exploited other people for profit who happened to be Black.

Get off your narrow minded, self righteous high horse and consider how ridiculous that is in the grand scheme.


This is the typical response of those who are unable to see their own prejudices. It is an unfortunate symptom of the populist ills now infecting modern societies.

That you cannot see the difference doesn't mean there isn't one. It just means that you cannot recognise it.

The exploitation wasn't brief and the effects are still present today. There is no need for any individuals to carry any personal guilt of their fathers but society still has to deal with their collective legacy. That society involves us all, whatever our particular skin colour.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 17 Apr 19 12.31am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

This is the typical response of those who are unable to see their own prejudices. It is an unfortunate symptom of the populist ills now infecting modern societies.

That you cannot see the difference doesn't mean there isn't one. It just means that you cannot recognise it.

The exploitation wasn't brief and the effects are still present today. There is no need for any individuals to carry any personal guilt of their fathers but society still has to deal with their collective legacy. That society involves us all, whatever our particular skin colour.

How long does this legacy continue? Slavery ended nearly 200 years ago but it’s effects are still pervasive? Exploitation is a different subject but unfortunately is a fact of life across the political spectrum.

 

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View Penge Eagle's Profile Penge Eagle Flag Beckenham 17 Apr 19 12.45am Send a Private Message to Penge Eagle Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Penge Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The exploitation wasn't brief and the effects are still present today. There is no need for any individuals to carry any personal guilt of their fathers but society still has to deal with their collective legacy. That society involves us all, whatever our particular skin colour.

Can you explain in more detail how something that happened to a great, great, great grandfather impacts somebody growing up in England in 2019?

Does this also include the Jews who had 6 million of their people massacred in more recent times? How are they generally doing today?

 

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Park Road Flag 17 Apr 19 8.59am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I come from a 100% working class background, was brought up on a council estate and left school at 16 because my Mum wanted the extra cash and thought higher education a waste of time. I never had the time or the money to even contemplate sub cultures in my teens and as I married very young was soon too busy bringing up a family and putting bread on their table.

I always regarded such things as the selfish indulgence of people with too much time and/or money on their hands. It was never for me and I remain very happy that it wasn't. I have my interests and am still actively playing, at 74, a sport I love.

Does that include all sub cultures in your mind? Must have been teddy boys in your day
Also, can't see the relationship between your age and the sport you play has anything to do with the topic of sub culture...but I would be interested to know which sport? - seeming you brought it up, and something you obviously like to self indulge in.
As a teenager we all worked hard and played hard. No one I knew whether it be mod , rocker, skinhead , punk etc..had too much money just the opposite.
With work we didn't have much time on our hands either.
So, in my opinion you still come across as a bit of a snob albeit a working class one

Or is the real reason resentment because no one let you join their group

Edited by Park Road (17 Apr 2019 9.00am)

Edited by Park Road (17 Apr 2019 9.11am)

 

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Park Road Flag 17 Apr 19 9.04am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

This is the typical response of those who are unable to see their own prejudices. It is an unfortunate symptom of the populist ills now infecting modern societies.

That you cannot see the difference doesn't mean there isn't one. It just means that you cannot recognise it.

The exploitation wasn't brief and the effects are still present today. There is no need for any individuals to carry any personal guilt of their fathers but society still has to deal with their collective legacy. That society involves us all, whatever our particular skin colour.

I understand you Wisbech...I still can't get over being invaded by the Normans, Vikings and not forgetting the Romans... Those invaders should apologize and still be ashamed of what they did to the good folk of Britain.

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe 17 Apr 19 9.35am Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Penge Eagle

Can you explain in more detail how something that happened to a great, great, great grandfather impacts somebody growing up in England in 2019?

Does this also include the Jews who had 6 million of their people massacred in more recent times? How are they generally doing today?

Oh come on. This is a stupid comment. Of course it affects those groups of people in some way. Mainly psychologically - they will have been told the horrors of their past via stories handed down from family and friends.

Especially something as recent as the holocaust and to some extent segregation, slavery - the historical ‘place’ and perception of black men and women, for example.

Plus, most races and cultures are brought up to know about their history and background and the struggles and successes that got them to where they are today. Ours included. This certainly forms an important part of a group of individuals identity, perception of their place in society and in some cases can seed prejudices against other groups even though there might be no reason to do so in the modern age.

If that isn’t obvious to you then you have no business existing other than in your own isolationist, introverted bubble

Edited by SW19 CPFC (17 Apr 2019 9.36am)

Edited by SW19 CPFC (17 Apr 2019 9.37am)

 


said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 17 Apr 19 9.38am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

This is the typical response of those who are unable to see their own prejudices. It is an unfortunate symptom of the populist ills now infecting modern societies.

That you cannot see the difference doesn't mean there isn't one. It just means that you cannot recognise it.

The exploitation wasn't brief and the effects are still present today. There is no need for any individuals to carry any personal guilt of their fathers but society still has to deal with their collective legacy. That society involves us all, whatever our particular skin colour.

Don't lecture me about not seeing the obvious. The obvious is that you see everything through the lens of self loathing.

It is a completely irrational view based on a false premise.

No one should be treated differently for any reason. Everyone is entitled to pride irrespective of any narrow minded definition applied to it by the hard of thinking, irrespective of their political persuasion.

Understand. Slavery is not about colour. It is about opportunity.
Many races have been slaves including to their own race. Many have been considered inferior by others and it doesn't just depend on how they look. Many Jews in Germany did not look very different from any other Germans and yet they were put on the trains like all the others because of a mindset perpetuated by the Nazis.
Oppression of others is part of human history and was almost certainly 'invented' by Black people since they were here first and for a long time before the first whitey showed up.

The idea that you want to select a brief moment in history to condemn an entire group of people to perpetual shame is so absurd that a man of your obvious intelligence should be ashamed to believe it.

You are basically advocating racism as a reaction to something that historically, has not been primarily about racism.

You have been indoctrinated by pseudo intellectual liberal bias based on misplaced guilt. You are being manipulated and you don't even know it.

Put this into a wider context and think about how ridiculous your ideas will seem in several hundred years when White people make up only 10% of the world population and decreasing.

How long do you want to continue this race bias to make up for slavery and segregation? Till all the White people are gone? Will that satisfies your guilt?
Do you really think that you can make all people equal with social manipulation?
Do you think it is reasonable to give positive discrimination to people who actually outnumber White Europeans 8-1 globally just because they are currently a minority in your country?

Do you not see that your attitude is totally racist.
You are blaming a whole demographic for the historical misdeeds of a few.


Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Apr 2019 10.42am)

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 17 Apr 19 10.11am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Slam dunk I’d say.

 


COYP

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 17 Apr 19 11.24am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

No one should be treated differently for any reason. Everyone is entitled to pride irrespective of any narrow minded definition applied to it by the hard of thinking, irrespective of their political persuasion.

Obviously true and not in any way being challenged by the arguments I have made. The challenges exist only in the minds of those who seek to compartmentalise the arguments.

Understand. Slavery is not about colour. It is about opportunity.
Many races have been slaves including to their own race. Many have been considered inferior by others and it doesn't just depend on how they look. Many Jews in Germany did not look very different from any other Germans and yet they were put on the trains like all the others because of a mindset perpetuated by the Nazis.

Also obviously true but not part of my argument either. Slavery was not brought up by me but introduced by others who made assumptions.

The idea that you want to select a brief moment in history to condemn an entire group of people to perpetual shame is so absurd that a man of your obvious intelligence should be ashamed to believe it.

I don't seek to "condemn an entire group of people to perpetual shame"! That is a distortion of quite ridiculous proportions. I am merely pointing out that those who use the two terms do so for different motivations. I am a white skinned man but I don't go around claiming to be "White and proud" because the colour of my skin is an irrelevance to me. So why do some people do it? Find the answer to that and you might get the point. Black people though, because of the way our society has developed, live with a continuing strand of prejudice at certain levels. Therefore those who use "Black and proud" do so for very different motivations. It really isn't too difficult to understand.

You are basically advocating racism as a reaction to something that historically, has not been primarily about racism.

You have been indoctrinated by pseudo intellectual liberal bias based on misplaced guilt. You are being manipulated and you don't even know it.

I am not "advocating racism"! I am pointing out that people use terminology for different reasons, some of which can be honourably defended and some not.

Put this into a wider context and think about how ridiculous your ideas will seem in several hundred years when White people make up only 10% of the world population and decreasing.

Hopefully by then the use of such language will have completely died out and the idea of black, white and brown skins is a distant memory.

How long do you want to continue this race bias to make up for slavery and segregation? Till all the White people are gone? Will that satisfies your guilt?
Do you really think that you can make all people equal with social manipulation?
Do you think it is reasonable to give positive discrimination to people who actually outnumber White Europeans 8-1 globally just because they are currently a minority in your country?

Do you not see that your attitude is totally racist.
You are blaming a whole demographic for the historical misdeeds of a few.

That sums up the complete misrepresentation of all I have been saying and hints at the underlying racism which is at the base of why some people think that "White and proud" is no different to "Black and proud". Not that I think there is a snowball's chance in hell that you will see it.

That's my last word to you on this.


Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Apr 2019 10.42am)

 

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View Penge Eagle's Profile Penge Eagle Flag Beckenham 17 Apr 19 11.50am Send a Private Message to Penge Eagle Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Penge Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Oh come on. This is a stupid comment. Of course it affects those groups of people in some way. Mainly psychologically - they will have been told the horrors of their past via stories handed down from family and friends.

Especially something as recent as the holocaust and to some extent segregation, slavery - the historical ‘place’ and perception of black men and women, for example.

Plus, most races and cultures are brought up to know about their history and background and the struggles and successes that got them to where they are today. Ours included. This certainly forms an important part of a group of individuals identity, perception of their place in society and in some cases can seed prejudices against other groups even though there might be no reason to do so in the modern age.

If that isn’t obvious to you then you have no business existing other than in your own isolationist, introverted bubble

Edited by SW19 CPFC (17 Apr 2019 9.36am)

Edited by SW19 CPFC (17 Apr 2019 9.37am)

What nonsense! Do you actually know any black people? And they tell you the reason why they are struggling in life is because they are mentally scarred by stories about their ancestors?

Again, explain how the "psychological" effects of the holocaust have made the Jews the among the highest earners in the US?

Did you know there was such a thing in the past as white slavery? I might look into my family history to find out if I can be a victim too!

Edited by Penge Eagle (17 Apr 2019 11.57am)

 

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