The Ashes 2019
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 ex hibitionist  Hastings 09 Sep 19 10.28am |
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the aussies have the edge generally, not just in cricket but in the other sports both nations take seriously, though their tennis is nowhere atm in both codes of rugby they are better too (esp league) - it's to do with the countries themselves not just how sport is run - they are more meritocratic and more innovative generally, that old school tie thing is alive and kicking over here still and it gives us Cameron Johnson Bullingdon, public school cricket dominance and regular ashes defeats - how good is cricket coaching in our secondary schools?
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| Midlands Eagle 09 Sep 19 10.42am |
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Originally posted by ex hibitionist
that old school tie thing is alive and kicking over here still and it gives us Cameron Johnson Bullingdon, public school cricket dominance and regular ashes defeats - how good is cricket coaching in our secondary schools? Rory Burns - Whitgift School Not a single silver spoon there at all and I think that many of the cricket coaches are ex players Edited by Midlands Eagle (09 Sep 2019 10.42am)
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| ex hibitionist Hastings 09 Sep 19 11.03am |
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I don't know how many of these schools are private - I can't be bothered to check, but there's far more effort and expense spent on cricket and rugby per capita in private schools compared to the state sector, and almost zero on football in private schools cos its considered a working class game, and all our UK international coaches for cricket and rugby are from the southern hemisphere - why? it's a cultural thing - in this country innovation goes into finance, marketing or popular arts/fashion - we can't put imagination and organisation together which explains our comparative crapness in industry and sport - we NEVER teach the all blacks how to play rugby, we NEVER whitewash the aussies like they do us and we NEVER win trophies in international football, all the innovation in test cricket is either aussie, sri lankan or pakistani (pinch hitters, attacking spinners whatever) NEVER English. I believe that the root cause of sporting failure in this country is the pereception that rugby, cricket and tennis are middle class and football is working class, it's why we don't produce coaches at the level of Klopp, Guardiola, Eddie Jones and have to hire from abroad - Southgate's come good but there wasn't a lot to choose from before he got the job, there's something underlying that and it permeates beyond sport.
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| chris123 hove actually 09 Sep 19 11.26am |
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Originally posted by ex hibitionist
I don't know how many of these schools are private - I can't be bothered to check, but there's far more effort and expense spent on cricket and rugby per capita in private schools compared to the state sector, and almost zero on football in private schools cos its considered a working class game, and all our UK international coaches for cricket and rugby are from the southern hemisphere - why? it's a cultural thing - in this country innovation goes into finance, marketing or popular arts/fashion - we can't put imagination and organisation together which explains our comparative crapness in industry and sport - we NEVER teach the all blacks how to play rugby, we NEVER whitewash the aussies like they do us and we NEVER win trophies in international football, all the innovation in test cricket is either aussie, sri lankan or pakistani (pinch hitters, attacking spinners whatever) NEVER English. I believe that the root cause of sporting failure in this country is the pereception that rugby, cricket and tennis are middle class and football is working class, it's why we don't produce coaches at the level of Klopp, Guardiola, Eddie Jones and have to hire from abroad - Southgate's come good but there wasn't a lot to choose from before he got the job, there's something underlying that and it permeates beyond sport. Colin Pates has been football coach at Whitgift for years.
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 09 Sep 19 11.33am |
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Originally posted by ex hibitionist
the aussies have the edge generally, not just in cricket but in the other sports both nations take seriously, though their tennis is nowhere atm in both codes of rugby they are better too (esp league) - it's to do with the countries themselves not just how sport is run - they are more meritocratic and more innovative generally, that old school tie thing is alive and kicking over here still and it gives us Cameron Johnson Bullingdon, public school cricket dominance and regular ashes defeats - how good is cricket coaching in our secondary schools? England are far better at rugby union currently. Aussies are more into league which has been hurting their game for a while. I expect England to beat Australia in the World Cup in Japan - if they meet, which is a decent possibility.
Red and Blue Army! |
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| Midlands Eagle 09 Sep 19 11.37am |
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Originally posted by ex hibitionist
I don't know how many of these schools are private - I can't be bothered to check, I should have made it more obvious that none of them were private schools. I believe that one of the problems with schools cricket is that many schools sold off their cricket pitches in the Thatcher era and no longer have the room. One of the major problems at the moment with English cricket is the ECB who have marginalised four day county cricket in favour of crash bang wallop cricket and next year it will get worse with this regional 100 series that no-one really wants but the ECB sees as a money spinner. The County Championship is now played at the beginning and end of the season when the ball is swinging freely so the bowlers never learn how to take wickets on a nice sunny summer's day when you can't rely on atmospheric conditions for help
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| chris123 hove actually 09 Sep 19 11.39am |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I should have made it more obvious that none of them were private schools. I believe that one of the problems with schools cricket is that many schools sold off their cricket pitches in the Thatcher era and no longer have the room. One of the major problems at the moment with English cricket is the ECB who have marginalised four day county cricket in favour of crash bang wallop cricket and next year it will get worse with this regional 100 series that no-one really wants but the ECB sees as a money spinner. The County Championship is now played at the beginning and end of the season when the ball is swinging freely so the bowlers never learn how to take wickets on a nice sunny summer's day when you can't rely on atmospheric conditions for help Whitgift is fee paying.
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| ex hibitionist Hastings 09 Sep 19 11.43am |
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you can pick exceptions all day long, and I've over simplified things for brevity's sake,but we used to produce coaches like Shankly, Bill Nicholson, Jock Stein, Clough, and there was a move to social mobility back then, the introduction of comprehensive education, the expansion of social housing etc, and I don't think it's coincidental. When was the last time a British coach was in the Arsene Wenger class, a real innovator, there's something parochial and small minded in our approach to certain things, something like enlightened thinking is not for the plebs - Harry Redknapp always says that the FA are useless because they are full of academics not ex-players, and I'd love to hear more on this because I imagine lots of snobby graduates dismissing the views of 'oiks' with experience, and I wouldn't be surprised if most of the FA bureaucrats prefer rugby. When Sven Goran Erikkson produced that 5-1 win in Germany he released the players, they were much more mentally free than under Keegan, it's that expansive quality which other nations integrate into their approach much better than we do, I think that is where we fail, that and preparing with the Dukes ball instead of the Kookaburra!
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| ex hibitionist Hastings 09 Sep 19 12.22pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
Rory Burns - Whitgift School Not a single silver spoon there at all and I think that many of the cricket coaches are ex players Edited by Midlands Eagle (09 Sep 2019 10.42am) worksop college is independent and root was a border there from the age of 15 onwards so yah boo sucks, I may have to back down on some of the specifics but the general point is still valid, it would be interesting to see how many of the others needed public school aid/intervention like root did because their local school didn't have the facilities, the lack of facilities is partly down to thatcher as you point out, but there could be regional differences as well, and in this part of the world I doubt we're really tapping into the potential with so many kids of Asian or carribean descent in London and the south east
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| Stirlingsays 09 Sep 19 1.09pm |
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The Australian population is significantly lower than the English and we are very liberal in selecting 'qualifying' players from other countries anyway and have been for decades. Our whole set up have world leading funds comparable to India put into it and yet we are a middle ranking test side. No, people should be pretty annoyed about how England have gone in this series and about English cricket generally. From the ECB's money whoring direction and priorities to Joe Root's lack of strong leadership skills as captain. Previously I had time for Ed Smith's selections but I feel that apart from the 'no brainer' of Archer he's left better test players in the county scene than Denly and Roy, Overton.....It seems winning the World Cup gave the belief that suddenly one day players were test players. Root isn't a strong figure as a captain and averaged 52 as a batsman and now 40 as a captain.....So basically putting him in charge has been a downgrade in both senses. I have yet to see that, 'just good enough' isn't the implicit mindset and mantra of this group.....Even having lost the Ashes on home soil....convincingly in our own conditions. I hope Ed Smith's selection for the final test offers something different. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Sep 2019 1.14pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Frickin Saweet  South Cronx 09 Sep 19 1.20pm |
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don't think it's fair to bring in new faces for such a non-event as the final test match. The current squad needs to be examined once more and feel the full heat of their failure, before decisions are made on the future captaincy, selection and preparation. IMO the whole thinking behind the captaincy needs scrutiny. Root's batting average has dropped off a cliff and it's too much of a sacrifice of (batting) talent. Same thing happened with Cook. Let your best batsmen bat, and find another leader in the ranks.
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Teddy Eagle  09 Sep 19 1.52pm |
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