2020 US Presidential Election. (LOCKED)
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 Stirlingsays  11 Jan 21 12.56pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
That may be, but are we allowed to point out falsehoods that have not come to pass by the end of this date? Or as one poster has said because we don't '100% know for sure that it is fake then to enforce your view on someone else is no better than what they are doing.' So basically because I'm not in the Vatican with the Pope right now, and I can't see him and see that he's very much not arrested with my own eyes, then anything goes? TBF even if I could I'd get told I was in the matrix, hooked up to VR or looking at a hologram or some s***. On that 100% basis, everything is simultaneously fake and real at the same time because, really, unless you can see it with your own eyes you can't prove it to be 100% true or false. Mentalism. You can't function like that. Nothing can.
However, I think you are exclusively picking on the low hanging fruit rather than focusing upon the realities....I'm not saying you shouldn't but that it's small fry. It's a fact that that militia exist out there in large numbers just as antifa/blm do and that conflict will be occurring. The Pope might as well be wearing suspenders for all it matters. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Jan 2021 12.57pm)
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| Stirlingsays 11 Jan 21 1.04pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Nope – stop making it about left and right all the time FFS I have exactly the same opinions about religions. Christianity, Islam, Hindu, don't care. It's the same method, the same psychology and the same nonsense. However, if people believe something then fine, sure. If they start endlessly preaching (regurgitating content from others) rather than formulating opinion based on their beliefs, then that's an issue. If they simply choose to repost stuff they haven't written as their main form of communication / preaching, big problem. Happens all the time, it's not specific to QAnon. But this thread is being hijacked by QAnon. So guess what we're ridiculing. QAnon. Anyone's free to start preaching about islam, christianity, flat earth, or how pokemon are actually real any time they like. But it will be met with exactly the same derision. It's not a partisan issue for me. My point regarding this was more a general one about the left in general.....and I don't agree with you that left and right aren't an intrinsic aspect of this. While Qanon isn't exclusive to the right that's where it mainly sits....though it's often portrayed as more prominent than it is. I agree that you differ insomuch that you'd be happy to criticise religion. However, are you saying that you agree with religion on the net being closed down as the Democrats are doing with Qanon? Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Jan 2021 2.35pm)
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 11 Jan 21 1.08pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
However, I think you are exclusively picking on the low hanging fruit rather than focusing upon the realities....I'm not saying you shouldn't but that it's small fry. It's a fact that that militia exist out there in large numbers just as antifa/blm do and that conflict will be occurring. The Pope might as well be wearing suspenders for all it matters. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Jan 2021 12.57pm) mmm – I'm not sure I agree that it is low hanging fruit, because it has a direct influence on the realities. It is effectively driving the extremist factions on the right – it's the gateway drug for normies basically. It happens everywhere in everything, religion, the left, political movements etc. It's just usually these are much smaller, cultish offshoots that get little in the way of acceptance or sympathy. This is different. It's basically becoming the right. Which then plays into your point about the party splitting with the trump faction mainly powered by that particular belief system, as it more or less is now. The fact he uses content from it directly or indirectly on a regular basis tells you enough. And as it rapidly becomes the only source of income for him he will become more and more focused on it. It's all he has left. So he's not just going to go, 'well, I know this is nonsense, so I'm going to back away and bankrupt myself as to continue would be a bit ethically and morally dickish'. He's going to milk that cow as much as he can and to hell with the consequences.
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| Lombardinho London 11 Jan 21 1.09pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It's this kind of attitude which drives me to despair. No-one tells me, or I believe others, what to believe. I apply rational, objective reasoning on whether things are likely to be true or not. I combine that with my own experience and knowledge and whether there is any genuine likelihood of those writing the story could be involved in any kind of gigantic conspiracy capable of maintaining secrecy. Then I decide. On the other side are factless assertions offered without evidence which are routinely debunked as nonsense. The two are not in any way comparable. One is highly likely to be an honest appraisal of a situation and quest for the truth. The other is highly likely to be a con. Whatever made you think I was referring to you, Wisbech, dear chap?
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| Stirlingsays 11 Jan 21 1.10pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
That's because it's been in the news a lot and posters on here have been quoting it. It seems to have gained quite a bit of traction, nothing more than that really. Think your point on religions is a fair one, it just seems to be another belief system. I'm just interested in the psychology in how it seems to have permeated through so successfully. Edited by DanH (11 Jan 2021 12.54pm) Qanon is a collection of beliefs about how the world is run by globalists and the deep state of elites. Many people believe in aspects of it and find other aspects fanciful. To me, all that matters are results. Who really cares if someone believes that the Pope was assassinated last summer....what matters is how you life is going to be impacted by administrations. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Jan 2021 1.12pm)
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 11 Jan 21 1.11pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
My point regarding this was more a general one about the left in general.....and I don't agree with you that left and right are an intrinsic aspect of this. While Qanon isn't exclusive to the right that's where it mainly sits....though it's often portrayed as more prominent than it is. I agree that you differ insomuch that you'd be happy to criticise religion. However, are you saying that you agree with religion on the net being closed down as the Democrats are doing with Qanon? Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Jan 2021 1.05pm) Probably, yes. *If a particular account, group or section* is proven to promote violence. Already happens with islamist extremism anyway. See Daesh. Personally on risk analysis I'd love to be able to eradicate religion entirely but ultimately that's a) unachievable b) ethically questionable Also humans appear to be designed to always look for meaning – even if you reset the clock and wiped everyones mind of religion, it would resurface again. It's the love child of ignorance and emotion vs. rationality and logic. Edited by SW19 CPFC (11 Jan 2021 1.16pm)
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 11 Jan 21 1.15pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Qanon is a collection of beliefs about how the world is run by globalists and the deep state of elites. Many people believe in aspects of it and find other aspects fanciful. To me, all that matters are results. Who really cares if someone believes that the Pope was assassinated last summer....what matters is how you life is going to be impacted by administrations. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Jan 2021 1.12pm) Also here – this is making it seem a little less controversial than it actually is. Soft and oversimplifying almost. Elites and globalists do basically run the world at the moment. That's obvious. Certainly the elite part has been true for millennia, really Globalism as the prevailing aim for those in power right now is not exactly some sort of massive secret. The issue is with the claims about how and what, not that globalism and elites exist.
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| Stirlingsays 11 Jan 21 1.20pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Probably, yes. If it's proven to promote violence. Already happens with islamist extremism anyway. See Daesh. Personally on risk analysis I'd love to be able to eradicate religion entirely but ultimately that's a) unachievable b) ethically questionable Also humans appear to be designed to always look for meaning – even if you reset the clock and wiped everyones mind of religion, it would resurface again. It's the love child of ignorance and emotion vs. rationality and logic. I suppose this fits with your ultimate idea that society...hell, the world, is best run if everyone hears the same narratives and believes the same messages. I don't think that humans can be controlled like that unless they were genetically designed to be.....which would be a long way off to even consider even ignoring the ethics. So my angle is that the best you can do is to work with human nature and understand that tribalism is inherent and is genetically fused. More decentralisation is better not less....more nations not less....more separation not less. I believe that the current focus is creating much more conflict than would otherwise be the case. Above that elites....who actually want to represent their nations....can interact. But not act conspiratorially against them to merge them....which is what happens now. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Jan 2021 1.21pm)
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 11 Jan 21 1.32pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I suppose this fits with your ultimate idea that society...hell, the world, is best run if everyone hears the same narratives and believes the same messages. I don't think that humans can be controlled like that unless they were genetically designed to be.....which would be a long way off to even consider even ignoring the ethics. So my angle is that the best you can do is to work with human nature and understand that tribalism is inherent and is genetically fused. More decentralisation is better not less....more nations not less....more separation not less. I believe that the current focus is creating much more conflict than would otherwise be the case. Above that elites....who actually want to represent their nations....can interact. But not act conspiratorially against them to merge them....which is what happens now. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Jan 2021 1.21pm) I don't think I've ever said 'best run', but certainly that in my view given the current trajectory of technology etc. it is inevitable. Best run would probably be a decentralised society with a small population, but that ship sailed a while back. Even then they still had plenty of fisticuffs, although slightly different mental and technological state back then.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Jan 21 1.46pm |
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Originally posted by Lombardinho
Whatever made you think I was referring to you, Wisbech, dear chap? I didn't think you were referring to me. I was just using myself as an example. De-bunking fact-checkers seems a little bit of an oxymoron.
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| Stirlingsays 11 Jan 21 1.58pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
I don't think I've ever said 'best run', but certainly that in my view given the current trajectory of technology etc. it is inevitable. Best run would probably be a decentralised society with a small population, but that ship sailed a while back. Even then they still had plenty of fisticuffs, although slightly different mental and technological state back then. I don't think it is inevitable. Indeed, it could led to far worse outcomes for the majority of people.....and for what purpose, so we can continue onwards in an elite/slave type system It doesn't solve the technology problem anyway. The only solution to that is the reality of the technological rat race itself......that and the colonising of other planets and moons. Though perhaps humans can be banned from technological progression once our AI overlords are in charge. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Jan 2021 1.59pm)
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Jan 21 2.00pm |
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I wondered how long it would be before the Trump brand became toxic. I see that the Trump National has been stripped of the 2022 US PGA Championship. As the type of Hotels and golf courses he owns are not generally populated by the kind of people who make up the bulk of his "base" I see real problems ahead for him, and those who share his name. Who now would choose to stay at a Trump hotel that could afford to do so? Some for sure but enough? I rather doubt it. How long before a deal is done to sell the lot and rebrand them with a shiny new, gold free, image? Of course, if the rumours are true, then it might be the receivers selling them.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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