I sent a link showing you precisely where the extra 280,000 deaths are. I may be misunderstanding but doesn't the link you just sent only go up to March 2020? That was before the vast majority of the additional deaths.

"During the first 34 weeks of 2020, 280,000 more people died than during the first 34 weeks of any of the five previous years. From March to August 2020, the number of weekly deaths was consistently higher compared to the weekly deaths of any of the previous five years. "

The screen cap you posted is one person pushing a view. The collated weekly death chart on the actual CDC page itself shows that week on week there has been substantially more deaths over recent months than in previous years: [Link]

While I know it's tempting to always try to look behind the curtain, both rationality and factually more people have died in recent months than in previous years.

As for being declared at no worse than the flu by some, it was early days and so of course how its perceived and talked about can change over time. We now know that it is worse than the flu. There's an argument that it's not so much worse that all of these measures should be brought in, but then it's the kind of question that if you ask 100 different people, you'll get 100 different answers.

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For an intelligent man this is an extremely stupid opinion to air on a public forum. Have you not noticed the left protesting recently?

Neoconservatism, for which he has become, not just a poster boy, but a kind of idol, has many tentacles, and hawkishness is only one.

Let's take his tax cut as just one example. Trump's one real legislative achievement so far has been to force through a tax cut which has added hundreds of billions to the US deficit. It has primarily been to boost corporate and business interests, although all potential knock on investment gains have been eradicated by Covid. It is the policy of Republican fantasy, and will almost certainly lay the groundwork for another dose of major cuts to the state at a time when there is massive social instability.

While Trump has been in his usual salesman mode about how brilliant and extraordinary this tax cut will be, it has been the left that have been digging and investigating the real impact of these cuts. The right - I mean the fiscally conservative right who have nightmares about deficits - have all gone strangely silent. And while you will find page after page on this thread about immigration, Trump's status as a man of the people and plenty of vitriol to 'the left', you won't find too much about his single legislative 'achievement' of his first term.

I wonder why?

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

Oh God, he's done it again. No wonder Pelosi's pushing through legislation to 25th-him as soon as he wins.

[Link]

At least no-one in the crowd pointed it out. Because there is no crowd.

[Link]

Try and understand this. Human nature is a thing that exists. Without it, mankind would not exist in it's present form. It took many thousand years to even reach civilisation. Let alone where we are now. How can a few kind words change that? Or even lots of "jaw jaw"? Indeed, war is a final resort, but human nature will not change by squeezing an economy or coercion of it's populace, in fact often the opposite. As good as you want to be, war will happen again. Because of human nature. The peoples of the world who are suppressed by the methods you state as "the only way" will not sit on their hands. They are currently bombing innocent people in retaliation. This is where ideals bring us.

Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

I tend to agree with your point that trying to pressure or massage countries into democracies can very often be a pipe dream. At the same time I don't think you and Wiz are on entirely different pages in that clearly countries can often be nudged in certain directions through economic and diplomatic means, it's just often more piecemeal in nature rather than a dramatic national transformation. And in a wider sense you're both also right in that diplomacy and sanctions are a first stop that can sometimes make a difference, but in certain situations a war footing ends up being inevitable.

The problem with unpredictable events is that unless you believe in crystal balls no-one can be more specific. The point is not the detail but that the claims made by Trump don't stand up. Which given his record is hardly surprising is it?

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.