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October 25 2020 8.07am

2020 US Presidential Election.

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 16 Oct 20 3.05pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Oh it was done legally, via Parliamentary approval. That's not disputed. It was the events leading up to that which demonstrated the weakness of both Cameron in calling for one, Parliament for failing to do their democratic duty and reject the result, May for not responding to the advice of the security services, and Corbyn for putting personal ambition above the country. They failed us.

You know how the members of the Electoral Commission voted do you? How?

If you bother to Google it there is plenty out there. This from one of the many court cases they brought against leavers and lost.

""An investigation by The Sunday Telegraph found that four out of ten of the quango’s commissioners had openly criticised Brexit or called for a rethink, amounting to almost half the entire board commissioners, including the Chairman. In 2019, the police claimed that the Commission had failed to supply “potentially relevant” documents required in order to determine whether criminal charges could be brought against me and others.""

But no I don't know how they voted.

Edited by Badger11 (16 Oct 2020 3.06pm)

 


One more point

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 16 Oct 20 4.13pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Accepting the result and accepting the outcome are different things.

Too much now on Brexit. Also too many ad hominems.

I am beginning to think you are actually a Watford supporter the way you like to play the man and not the ball.

I apologise for my continual postings, maybe just trying to get through this transfer window!
Your last paragraph was like a dagger through the heart, it may even be worse than saying I support Brighton as I live in Sussex!

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 16 Oct 20 6.06pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I totally disagree. The propaganda all came from the Leave campaigns. £350 million on a bus for instance. Their whole campaign was predicated on a lie. That the UK would be better off outside than in. It was skillfully done but it was a con trick, which is no way to serve the country.

I am not making excuses. I didn't believe we should hold a referendum so there is nothing to excuse. The result wasn't lost, it was first stolen and then given away by the ineptitude of Corbyn. You remain as convinced as you wish. The long game is now in play, and patience is the watch now.

I totally disagree. The propaganda all came from the Leave campaigns. £350 million on a bus for instance. Their whole campaign was predicated on a lie. That the UK would be better off outside than in. It was skillfully done but it was a con trick, which is no way to serve the country.


I am not making excuses. I didn't believe we should hold a referendum so there is nothing to excuse. The result wasn't lost, it was first stolen and then given away by the ineptitude of Corbyn. You remain as convinced as you wish. The long game is now in play, and patience is the watch now.

Propaganda isn't needed with Trump. He provides more than enough evidence every week for his own condemnation. The only one stirring up civil unrest is Trump with his encouragement of white supremacists. Something you seem to have some sympathy with. /b]

/b]

So you are claiming that there was no Remain propaganda and that Trumps opponents don't need to use every form of media and the stiring of civil unrest to win the election?

And you expect people to take that seriously?

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 16 Oct 20 9.47pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

If you bother to Google it there is plenty out there. This from one of the many court cases they brought against leavers and lost.

""An investigation by The Sunday Telegraph found that four out of ten of the quango’s commissioners had openly criticised Brexit or called for a rethink, amounting to almost half the entire board commissioners, including the Chairman. In 2019, the police claimed that the Commission had failed to supply “potentially relevant” documents required in order to determine whether criminal charges could be brought against me and others.""

But no I don't know how they voted.

Edited by Badger11 (16 Oct 2020 3.06pm)

Your last line is the only relevant one. In any case public servants can, and do, do their jobs in exactly the same way a lawyer does. By applying the law and only the law.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 16 Oct 20 9.55pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

I apologise for my continual postings, maybe just trying to get through this transfer window!
Your last paragraph was like a dagger through the heart, it may even be worse than saying I support Brighton as I live in Sussex!

That's magnanimous of you and I accept your apology without reservation. There is always another transfer window around the corner to keep us on the edge our seats and looking at the screen.

I am sure you are a nice guy who I would get along well with in person and could never be thought of as a Brighton supporter, though to be fair they are looking tidy this year, damn them.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 16 Oct 20 10.07pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So you are claiming that there was no Remain propaganda and that Trumps opponents don't need to use every form of media and the stiring of civil unrest to win the election?

And you expect people to take that seriously?

The remain campaign was weak. They clearly underestimated the veracity and style of leave. Defending the status quo is always a harder sell than selling jam tomorrow. It's why we get roller-coaster politics. But no, their campaign tried hard to be factual, because they had facts. Leave didn't. They had dreams.

You have swallowed too much Trump bs for your own good. The Dems aren't stirring up the unrest at all. Trump is doing that and then using it to claim he is the "Law and order" candidate. That most of the media oppose him is obvious. That's though solely because he deserves to be opposed. The worst POTUS in history attracts opposition.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 16 Oct 20 11.20pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The remain campaign was weak. They clearly underestimated the veracity and style of leave. Defending the status quo is always a harder sell than selling jam tomorrow. It's why we get roller-coaster politics. But no, their campaign tried hard to be factual, because they had facts. Leave didn't. They had dreams.

You have swallowed too much Trump bs for your own good. The Dems aren't stirring up the unrest at all. Trump is doing that and then using it to claim he is the "Law and order" candidate. That most of the media oppose him is obvious. That's though solely because he deserves to be opposed. The worst POTUS in history attracts opposition.

No, they didn't. What facts could they have about somerthing that has never happened before?

The only fact that matters is that a democratic process decided we should leave. Deal with it.

Whether Trump deserves to be opposed is a matter of opinion. It is also not a 'fact' despite your blinkered mentality.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 17 Oct 20 7.47am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The remain campaign was weak. They clearly underestimated the veracity and style of leave. Defending the status quo is always a harder sell than selling jam tomorrow. It's why we get roller-coaster politics. But no, their campaign tried hard to be factual, because they had facts. Leave didn't. They had dreams.

You have swallowed too much Trump bs for your own good. The Dems aren't stirring up the unrest at all. Trump is doing that and then using it to claim he is the "Law and order" candidate. That most of the media oppose him is obvious. That's though solely because he deserves to be opposed. The worst POTUS in history attracts opposition.

Not true both sides had assumptions based on the best available evidence and a large amount of prejudice the voter picked the assumptions they liked.

Coronavirus will have a huge impact on the world's economy and trading back in 2016 neither side took that into account so whatever assumptions both sides had are now outdated.

 


One more point

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 17 Oct 20 11.16am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

No, they didn't. What facts could they have about somerthing that has never happened before?

Remain had the evidence of what being a member entailed and delivered. Leave had no evidence of what not being a member would bring. Facts versus dreams. One represented by a bunch of "Del Boy" con men who were worthy of being called Trump and the other by serious politicians.

The only fact that matters is that a democratic process decided we should leave. Deal with it.

The most important fact is yet to become apparent to many. That it was a very stupid mistake brought about by a failure of our democracy. Repairs are needed. PR will be the result, but only after a breakup of the UK.

Whether Trump deserves to be opposed is a matter of opinion. It is also not a 'fact' despite your blinkered mentality.

Oh it's an opinion for sure which time will confirm as fact.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (17 Oct 2020 11.17am)

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 17 Oct 20 11.20am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Not true both sides had assumptions based on the best available evidence and a large amount of prejudice the voter picked the assumptions they liked.

Rather than repeat it, especially as we are off thread, read my last reply. It serves.

Coronavirus will have a huge impact on the world's economy and trading back in 2016 neither side took that into account so whatever assumptions both sides had are now outdated.

True and I can hear the excuses already.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 17 Oct 20 11.37am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Remain had the evidence of what being a member entailed and delivered. Leave had no evidence of what not being a member would bring. Facts versus dreams. One represented by a bunch of "Del Boy" con men who were worthy of being called Trump and the other by serious politicians.

The most important fact is yet to become apparent to many. That it was a very stupid mistake brought about by a failure of our democracy. Repairs are needed. PR will be the result, but only after a breakup of the UK.

-----------------------------------------------------

This post really sums you up Wisbech.

We had years of what being a member of the EU offered and an idea of what continued membership would potentially mean in the future. The majority didn't want that. That is pure democracy whether you like it or not.

PR has as many problems as advantaged and that is why sensible voted against that as well.

Trump's presidency will always leave opinions divided as politics always does. You seem to have an issue with differentiating between fact and what you think.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Oct 2020 11.40am)

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 17 Oct 20 12.20pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

This post really sums you up Wisbech.

We had years of what being a member of the EU offered and an idea of what continued membership would potentially mean in the future. The majority didn't want that. That is pure democracy whether you like it or not.

Dealing with factual evidence is what I am talking about. Expressing opinions about the past performance of the EU is obviously a legitimate debating point. Leave though went well beyond that as they suggested many things that were simply aspirations presented as fact. You have only to look at the way the "trade deals" were handled and how easy they would be to achieve. "Within days" of leaving was the promise. Countless new agreements with the rest of the world would flow like milk and honey into our sceptred isle. Del Boy garbage sold to the gullible.

PR has as many problems as advantaged and that is why sensible voted against that as well.

PR ensures genuine representative democracy and stops either the right or the left gaining, usually only temporily, any kind of handle on power. It avoids roller coaster politics and produces slow but steady progress. Much the better alternative. Nothing is perfect.

Trump's presidency will always leave opinions divided as politics always does. You seem to have an issue with differentiating between fact and what you think.

That anyone can still support this idiot is the puzzle. Which will engage historians for years to come as they try to analyse the reasons why it has happened. Different opinions are normal but there is nothing normal about Trump.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Oct 2020 11.40am)

 

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