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September 27 2020 8.14am

Roy IN. Stop scapegoating him!

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 27 Jul 20 4.32pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Ian-VI

I guess you're losing time Neill...

In the meantime, I just saw something that made me smile...
A guy on Twitter (and retweeted by HOL) just updated the table of Palace managers stats.
Guess what...

Roy's point average is 1.24 so far in 110 games. Tony Pulis got a remarkable 1.46 although in only 26 matches, and Steve Coppell got 1.31.
Sam Allardyce got 1.24 exactly as Roy, and Alan Pardew only 1.21.
All other managers got less.

But what made me a laugh is the fact that Roy is described as defensive, destroying attack etc... but guess what?
His team scored 1.15 goals per match.
What about Allardyce who had Benteke scoring for fun? (and some on here say Benteke doesn't score any more because of Roy...) 1.05 goals per game
And what about Pulis? 1.00 goals per game.
What about Steve Coppell? yes... 1.15 exactly as Roy, believe it or not...
The only one scoring more is Alan Pardew 1.29

The need for us to make one or two attacks work was more extreme under Pulis. We had to catch them unawares. Roy lets the opposition set themselves up before we go past the halfway line. Allardyce was only manager for a few months or half a season and came in when the defence and def mid really was all over the shop. There was not much room to risk anything at that stage.

If we attack a bit earlier than it being an attack v defence training drill under Roy then we might have a bit more joy. But isnít even just that. Itís the defending 1-0 losses, like for like subs, often too late, and mostly knowing thereís not much point being there after 20 mins once you can see how the two setups mean we wonít be mounting any kind of challenge on the day seeing as we he wonít change us.

Iím only saying change manager if the next manager is a good hire. If we were to invest a lot in the team Iíd have reservations about Roy being here managing it, not that I expect that to happen.

 


COYP

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 27 Jul 20 4.35pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

With Pulis, we finished 11th on 45 points. Warnock was manager for the first 17 games and we finished 10th on 48 points. This season, it was 14th on 43 points. All that really shows is that we've not really progressed, nor have we been appreciably more sh*t than other seasons. Without a HUGE cash boost, we are what we are - a fairly consistent mid to lower table side.

And how do you think those squads under Pulis and Warnock compare to now? The wage bill be must 50+% higher, and weíre arguably worst than weíve ever been - thatís fundamentally my issue.

Iíd also argue this team is considerably less entertaining than Pulis/Warnock, which has been my main gripe since these discussions started (versus points returned).

 

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View Putitout's Profile Putitout Flag Oxford 27 Jul 20 4.39pm Send a Private Message to Putitout Add Putitout as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

Roy wants us to go into next season, sign more aginging players and keep using the same system. It's the wrong stratergy, it will get us religated, and lumbered with journeymen plays with no sell on value.

Roy, has been calling for more recruitment for the last two seasons. He said openly in his first summer we could only go forward if we got some decent signings in. Didnít happen. Every window he has put that out . Has It happened for him. ? No. We need an injection of forward players younger types ,freshen things up, he said just yesterday.
There is no question what he wants. The strategy has been dictated by the means. It hasnít got us relegated yet .And if he was given the type of player he would really want, and has made clear he wants , then sell on values would not be a problem.. And real progress could be made on the park.
You seem to suggest he is only in the job to play football that gets up your nose . When itís clear he wants what you want , but unlike you knows , what it actually takes to achieve that ,and in the mean time how to not get relegated, before we ever reach that level.


 

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View jeeagles's Profile jeeagles Flag 27 Jul 20 4.51pm Send a Private Message to jeeagles Add jeeagles as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

I'll keep asking the same question until you answer it properly. That seems beyond you though, so instead let's try to make it easier for you.

Are you are trying to get me to believe that the Chairman and part owner of a Premier League football club would sanction his manager treating the last 6/7/8 games of a season as friendlies ? Are you for real ??

By the way, his strategy up until and even after the Burnley game could not be described as not working given our points total and league position in that time.

I noticed you resorted to the cheap '' Woy '' insult.

Shameful

Are you being a troll or can you weally not understand the long term advanage of playing 7 premier league games like friendlys to try and find out what will and what wont work the following season?

Woy's not going to read this. You're the only person getting upset. My cheap Woy insult seems to work, unlike his tactics. I tried something new, and got a reaction. You and Woy should take note.

1 point from 8 games. 3 goals. 8 dreadful performances. Relegation form, but don't worry, lets just try exactly the same thing again.

Constantly the same failing tactics. Second lowest number of goals scored this season. An aging squad of failed journeyman, lead uninspiringly by a failed geriatric who's only ability is coming up with pathetic excuses in front of the media. Our best player is leaving on half the value he was worth last season. All our players have decreased in value under Woy. Zaha, Benteke, Townsend, Sakho, Tompkins, Luka, PVA are all a shaddow of their former selves. All our players are underperfoming but never dropped. We have a Dutch and German on the sidelines that aren't getting a look in. He refused to give a chance to a player who's one of the highest goal scores in Europe. He only gave AWB a look in when we didn't have any other option, had Ward and Kelly stayed fit the most expensive right back in the world would probably be playing youth team football still. We never make positive substitutions or chase a game when we are losing. All our substitutions are made far too late if at all. Wickham scored one and made one in two appearance then was loaned out. Our set peices are terrible and predicatable. Individual skill has dissapeared, we can't string three passes together. We don't play to our best players strenghts as it doesn't fit the system. A guy that scored 66 premiership goals in 4 seasons before Woy has scored 6 since. The football is awful. Almost deliberatly going out of the cup in front of our own supporters who'd paid good money to go.

Woy's answer to this terrible run. Play excatly the same team. Week in, week out. If it doesn't work, he'll blame everyone else but himself despite having a squad full of seasoned premier league professionals who have had moderate success elsewhere.

Woy's a won twick pony. He's good and getting a team organised. But that doesn't last. We should have got rid of him before the start of this season.
The man is stealing a living at our expense. I don't think that deserves any respect.

Yet you claim he's working miracles, buy keeping a team with the 9th highest wagebill and players who were exceedingly highly rated prior to his arrival in the premier league.

As the thread about him said when he first joined. There's a lot of questions in football, Roy Hodgson is the answer to none of them.

Lets sign this off by asking, what the hell has Woy done right this season?

 

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View EddieMac's Profile EddieMac Flag 27 Jul 20 4.54pm Send a Private Message to EddieMac Add EddieMac as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

It does seem to be exclusive to Roy defenders to be annoyingly patronising and make out anyone who doesnít agree with them is clueless or doesnít know what theyíre talking about - itís pathetic.

Itís evident to anyone that there are logical points on both sides; why do we have pretend there arenít. The issues raised about Roy of late are consistent themes throughout his whole career, over decades of management.

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (27 Jul 2020 4.29pm)

Did I ever say you were clueless ? And I certainly didnít say anything patronising. I just think your points for wanting Roy out are wrong. I have no problem looking at both sides of the argument but when I look at the Roy OUT side I am not seeing valid points.

The fact that you are saying he has had a career that has spanned over decades says a lot about him. He is a good manager who has managed at the very highest level. You can have your own opinion on him but he has done a lot right in his career.

 

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View EddieMac's Profile EddieMac Flag 27 Jul 20 4.55pm Send a Private Message to EddieMac Add EddieMac as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

Are you being a troll or can you weally not understand the long term advanage of playing 7 premier league games like friendlys to try and find out what will and what wont work the following season?

Woy's not going to read this. You're the only person getting upset. My cheap Woy insult seems to work, unlike his tactics. I tried something new, and got a reaction. You and Woy should take note.

1 point from 8 games. 3 goals. 8 dreadful performances. Relegation form, but don't worry, lets just try exactly the same thing again.

Constantly the same failing tactics. Second lowest number of goals scored this season. An aging squad of failed journeyman, lead uninspiringly by a failed geriatric who's only ability is coming up with pathetic excuses in front of the media. Our best player is leaving on half the value he was worth last season. All our players have decreased in value under Woy. Zaha, Benteke, Townsend, Sakho, Tompkins, Luka, PVA are all a shaddow of their former selves. All our players are underperfoming but never dropped. We have a Dutch and German on the sidelines that aren't getting a look in. He refused to give a chance to a player who's one of the highest goal scores in Europe. He only gave AWB a look in when we didn't have any other option, had Ward and Kelly stayed fit the most expensive right back in the world would probably be playing youth team football still. We never make positive substitutions or chase a game when we are losing. All our substitutions are made far too late if at all. Wickham scored one and made one in two appearance then was loaned out. Our set peices are terrible and predicatable. Individual skill has dissapeared, we can't string three passes together. We don't play to our best players strenghts as it doesn't fit the system. A guy that scored 66 premiership goals in 4 seasons before Woy has scored 6 since. The football is awful. Almost deliberatly going out of the cup in front of our own supporters who'd paid good money to go.

Woy's answer to this terrible run. Play excatly the same team. Week in, week out. If it doesn't work, he'll blame everyone else but himself despite having a squad full of seasoned premier league professionals who have had moderate success elsewhere.

Woy's a won twick pony. He's good and getting a team organised. But that doesn't last. We should have got rid of him before the start of this season.
The man is stealing a living at our expense. I don't think that deserves any respect.

Yet you claim he's working miracles, buy keeping a team with the 9th highest wagebill and players who were exceedingly highly rated prior to his arrival in the premier league.

As the thread about him said when he first joined. There's a lot of questions in football, Roy Hodgson is the answer to none of them.

Lets sign this off by asking, what the hell has Woy done right this season?

He done what he set out to do. Kept us in the division. End of discussion.

 

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Elm Guest House 27 Jul 20 4.59pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

And how do you think those squads under Pulis and Warnock compare to now? The wage bill be must 50+% higher, and weíre arguably worst than weíve ever been - thatís fundamentally my issue.

Iíd also argue this team is considerably less entertaining than Pulis/Warnock, which has been my main gripe since these discussions started (versus points returned).

I did say, and I freely admit, that we've not progressed. The only valid comparison I can offer is that the squads then and now were good enough to stay up against the competition they faced in their respective times. The quality of teams in the Premiership improves every year, including ours. But if our improvements are only equal to the improvements of others, then we're effectively only going to stand still. To make the step up that everyone seems to want, that takes money, which we don't have.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Elm Guest House 27 Jul 20 5.08pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

Are you being a troll or can you weally not understand the long term advanage of playing 7 premier league games like friendlys to try and find out what will and what wont work the following season?

Woy's not going to read this. You're the only person getting upset. My cheap Woy insult seems to work, unlike his tactics. I tried something new, and got a reaction. You and Woy should take note.

1 point from 8 games. 3 goals. 8 dreadful performances. Relegation form, but don't worry, lets just try exactly the same thing again.

Constantly the same failing tactics. Second lowest number of goals scored this season. An aging squad of failed journeyman, lead uninspiringly by a failed geriatric who's only ability is coming up with pathetic excuses in front of the media. Our best player is leaving on half the value he was worth last season. All our players have decreased in value under Woy. Zaha, Benteke, Townsend, Sakho, Tompkins, Luka, PVA are all a shaddow of their former selves. All our players are underperfoming but never dropped. We have a Dutch and German on the sidelines that aren't getting a look in. He refused to give a chance to a player who's one of the highest goal scores in Europe. He only gave AWB a look in when we didn't have any other option, had Ward and Kelly stayed fit the most expensive right back in the world would probably be playing youth team football still. We never make positive substitutions or chase a game when we are losing. All our substitutions are made far too late if at all. Wickham scored one and made one in two appearance then was loaned out. Our set peices are terrible and predicatable. Individual skill has dissapeared, we can't string three passes together. We don't play to our best players strenghts as it doesn't fit the system. A guy that scored 66 premiership goals in 4 seasons before Woy has scored 6 since. The football is awful. Almost deliberatly going out of the cup in front of our own supporters who'd paid good money to go.

Woy's answer to this terrible run. Play excatly the same team. Week in, week out. If it doesn't work, he'll blame everyone else but himself despite having a squad full of seasoned premier league professionals who have had moderate success elsewhere.

Woy's a won twick pony. He's good and getting a team organised. But that doesn't last. We should have got rid of him before the start of this season.
The man is stealing a living at our expense. I don't think that deserves any respect.

Yet you claim he's working miracles, buy keeping a team with the 9th highest wagebill and players who were exceedingly highly rated prior to his arrival in the premier league.

As the thread about him said when he first joined. There's a lot of questions in football, Roy Hodgson is the answer to none of them.

Lets sign this off by asking, what the hell has Woy done right this season?

The idea of Neillo being a troll is truly laughable. As are your increasingly feeble efforts to denigrate Hodgson (Woy. How old are you? Six?) and constant repetition of the same old ill-considered, ill- informed horsesh*t which has been repeatedly and intelligently rebuffed.

Sorry to be so blunt but you're becoming really tiresome now.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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View Frickin Saweet's Profile Frickin Saweet Flag Just outside The Cronx 27 Jul 20 5.12pm Send a Private Message to Frickin Saweet Add Frickin Saweet as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

I've answered it several times Neillo. You are just ignoring it.

Communication between the Chairman and Manager should be clear, and so should the stratergy.

A "tiny" difference is could also be described as insignificant. Which is what it was. It wasn't even in the right direction, it just slowed down the decline Losing wouldn't have made a bit of difference. Drawing will possibly drag out the saga of Roy Hodgson's very slowly killing the club.

The players know the only reason we got a draw yesterday was because Spurs let the game fizzle out. Had they needed to win, it would have been a different story.

I see you and Roy might both have very risk adverse personalities, at some point you have to take risks. Sport is about taking risks and trying to win. The best time to take risks is when there is nothing to lose, we didn't take this oportunity and we are now worse off because of it.

The time to start changing things wasn't after the Bournmouth game, thats a disingenous comment. The time to change them was after the Burnley game when we knew we had a tough run of fixtures.

I think you're right in that peoples expectations for Palace are likely to echo their own life attitudes and what people are prepared to settle for or want to achieve for themselves. There are those who accept a s*** hand or that they've reached a ceiling, and those who will push for betterment. Given Parish's own entrepreneurial past he will have taken calculated risks and broken the rule book at times. I just hope he has one more marauding run left in him at Palace to try and better the club before his ownership cycle comes to an end.

 

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View CT Charlie's Profile CT Charlie Flag 27 Jul 20 5.19pm Send a Private Message to CT Charlie Add CT Charlie as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

Jesus Neillo, you and Roy have so much in common.

You keep on asking the same question and expect a different answer.

Parish should have asked what the long term benefits of experimenting are. Woy should have realised that his stratergy has not worked this season and he needed to find something new. Those 8 (in fairness 6) last games could have been used to do just that.

Instead, Woy decided do just do the same thing again and again.... and it failed.

I don't know what is so difficult to get your head round?

This is crazy talk. Despite serious injuries, little depth, and no real Prem-level threat in the striker position, Roy's much-maligned system had earned us 42 points through 31 matches. The Bournemouth match in June gave us four consecutive wins, and 50 or more points didn't seem out of reach. Why would he, or anyone, have considered changing tactics when a finish in the top 8-10 was possible, bringing the club more money and, by our standards, a little glory.

In hindsight, we know that things unraveled, but changing course -- or treating the Restart as Friendly-time -- would have seemed daft.

Edited by CT Charlie (27 Jul 2020 5.27pm)

 

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 27 Jul 20 5.23pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Is Roy Hodgson the only manager that could have kept this squad up for the last three seasons. Seeing as itís the most expensive squad we have ever assembled the answer to that is no.

Could a different manager get a better set of results out of this squad, I would argue yes.

Roy is not a miracle worker, on the plus side he made us difficult to beat although the second half of this season kind of flies in the face of that. On the downside, the form of some very good players has plummeted under his tenure. He has done just enough to scrape us through, nothing more. I donít think our form in the second half of this season warrants another year in charge as manager. Stats do not lie and we are on a steep downward curve at present in all the categories you donít want to be, goals scored and points scored.

This is not a dig at any other poster on here it is how I feel about the situation at our club.

 

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View jeeagles's Profile jeeagles Flag 27 Jul 20 5.45pm Send a Private Message to jeeagles Add jeeagles as a friend

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

The idea of Neillo being a troll is truly laughable. As are your increasingly feeble efforts to denigrate Hodgson (Woy. How old are you? Six?) and constant repetition of the same old ill-considered, ill- informed horsesh*t which has been repeatedly and intelligently rebuffed.

Sorry to be so blunt but you're becoming really tiresome now.

Comming from a guy who's tag line is about wife beating northerners.

Had Neillo not asked me to repeat what I'd said time and time again. Then I wouldnt have repeated it, which has caused this frustrating loop. My polite attempts failed so I changed tactics. It might have been the wrong tactic, but repeating what I did before didnt work. My new tactic also didnt work. Therefore, I'm going to do what Roy Hodgson should do and give up. Just like him, I'm out of ideas. Unlike him, I'm disappointed to have failed, but it's down to my ineffective communication on my part and not Hodgson's ability as a manager.

After all, Eddie has already declared the end of discussion. Staying in the premiership is obviously enough after 7 seasons in the top flight.

 

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