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June 23 2021 6.50pm

Scottish Independence

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 02 Jan 21 12.19pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

As Wee Jimmy was quick to disparage Brexit I thought I would start a thread about Scottish Independence.


1. Should the Scots be allowed another referendum?
Answer: Yes.

In 2015 the Scots were told that remaining in the UK meant also remaining in the EU and many would have voted accordingly. As we have moved the goal posts significantly I do thing they are entitled to another vote for me the question is when not if.

I would say in at least 5 years time by which time people can judge what being out of the EU actually means to them.

2. Scotland Joining the EU. This is the major plank for the SNP but it begs the question does the EU want Scotland?

Politically some countries like Spain and Belgium may fear this as it could encourage independence movements of their own so it may not be plain sailing.

It will also depend on what financial shape the EU is in at the time. Having lost a major contributor will they have the resources to take on another country hoping for a free hand out?

Scotland will probably not even qualify under their rules due to the huge amount of debt the SNP has run up.

Then of course there is a waiting list of 7 countries Wee Jimmy wants to jump the queue but that will upset the 7 who have been waiting for years.

Answer: I suspect the EU would love Scotland to join to stick it to the UK however I don't think they have the wriggle room to do the Scots any favours, so my guess is they will be told to join the queue and wait their turn. If I was Nicola I would get a firm committent from the EU and a joining timetable if she doesn't have this before the vote I think it and the pound will be the key factors.

3. What does independence mean to the average Scot?

At some point they will have to define citizenship and who qualifies. No doubt there will be plenty of plastics in England rushing to get their Scottish passport.

The UK will also need to do this process like the EU settled status scheme. This probably wont impact Scots living in the rest of the UK as they will be grandfathered in. However the UK will draw a line so Scottish passport holders not covered (next generation) will have no more rights to live and work in the UK than a Frenchman or a West Indian.

The SNP will not be happy with this but that is the reality of an independent country the UK will treat them no better or worse than any other country. unskilled Scottish labourers may find it impossible to work in the UK.

Answer: The Scots may find access to employment in their biggest market difficult.

4. Should the Scots be allowed to keep the pound?

Answer: No.

It's not going to happen unless the Scots can guarantee an end date e.g. keep the pound for 1 year then join he Euro. Would you allow your divorced partner to access your bank account credit cards and take out joint loans? Of course not.

They want to join the Euro but I think that will take years and the UK should not put it's economy at risk by letting the Scots continue to use the pound.

The SNP need to come up with a solution for this in between period between independence and joining the EU.

5. Will they vote for indpendence?
Answer: Don't know.

If the vote is in 5 years time and the UK is thriving I suspect it will be close but the Scots will realise they are better off with us, especially if the EU is in a mess.

Edited by Badger11 (02 Jan 2021 12.23pm)

 


One more point

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Jan 21 12.21pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Can we keep the oats?

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 02 Jan 21 12.24pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend


well, most countries that have their own incomprehensible language wish to have their own independence.

gurnin crebit wee wains.

 


from the Etihad, Emirates, Molyneux, London Stadium, the Vitality, turf moor & Anfield to Old Trafford x 2.....or a neighbourly visit to Craven Cottage...Raptors on the Road

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Jan 21 12.29pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Once Blair created the national parliaments the break up of the union was just a matter of when.

The nature of parliaments is to want ever increasing control and Brexit is just the latest of excuses to push for it.

Personally as I believe in decentralisation of power I have little objection to it.

But for those who love the union....It was the Labour party...well, to be exact, Tony Blair who ensured its demise.

That guy has so much to answer for.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Jan 2021 12.30pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 02 Jan 21 12.45pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Be interesting to see if Scotland's wish to be independent changes much in the medium/long term - as the referendum and Brexit fade through the effluxion of time.

 

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 02 Jan 21 12.49pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

SNP are just the same as Sinn Fein.

they masquerade as patriotic nationalists, meanwhile they really are anti-English globalists & multiculturalists. More interested in LGBT, feminism, & refugees than preserving the local language & culture.

They wrap themselves in the national flag at election time, and the rainbow flag the other 364 days a year.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (02 Jan 2021 12.50pm)

 


from the Etihad, Emirates, Molyneux, London Stadium, the Vitality, turf moor & Anfield to Old Trafford x 2.....or a neighbourly visit to Craven Cottage...Raptors on the Road

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Online Flag Croydon 02 Jan 21 12.56pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Tony Blair did the right thing, devolution was inevitable, health matters are devolved and it shows.

If they had any doubt they needed to be still be in the union, then covid19 must have shown them otherwise.

Brexit they didn't want, why have it, but its not the main thing.

Bribery to stay in will be a determining factor as it was when the union started, the scots aristocracy sold their country out.

Sturgeon's popularity now 62% with her handling of covid19.

Johnsons is -43% (minus).

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 02 Jan 21 1.18pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

It seems inevitable that they'll eventually go their own way. This can be their new national anthem [Link]

 

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View Behind Enemy Lines's Profile Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 02 Jan 21 1.21pm Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Donít forget the divorce bill will have to be paid to HM Treasury too and the Barnet Formula will end....maybe not such a good idea to push too hard for independence after all.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 02 Jan 21 1.24pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Tony Blair did the right thing, devolution was inevitable, health matters are devolved and it shows.



LOL. Tony Blair ensued that his own party would be eventually wiped out in Scotland and essentially handing the Tories a winning hand in England. Really clever.

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

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View palace_in_frogland's Profile palace_in_frogland Flag In a broken dream 02 Jan 21 1.36pm Send a Private Message to palace_in_frogland Add palace_in_frogland as a friend

Let them vote; the minute a leave majority is achieved, kick them straight out of Westminster- especially that anglophobic maggot Blackford.

Or better still, lead him to the Tower in chains.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 02 Jan 21 1.40pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

Donít forget the divorce bill will have to be paid to HM Treasury too and the Barnet Formula will end....maybe not such a good idea to push too hard for independence after all.

Exactly.

The SNP are basing the future of the economy on what?

Oil and gas? Not the best time for that.

Tourism? Well apart from COVID what has the Scottish Government not been doing that they could after independence?

The Silicon Glen? Maybe but the future of IT is more likely India and China.

I don't see the growth area for Scotland at the moment. They can reduce expenditure by cutting defence not sure what else. Of course as they are anti nuclear the UK will remove all it's bases in Scotland in fact the SNP will probably demand it not sure how that's good for the economy?

The SNP loves to spend money so I think taxation will be higher in Scotland and possibly the canny Scots will cross the border to England to do their shopping.

Of course the SNP is in favour of mass immigration so in or out of the EU expect the Scots to open the doors. How long before the average Scot starts to feel aggrieved at all those issues they moan about in England such as jobs and housing and the loss of their culture.

The real pity in all of this is that there is only one version of independence on the table, a socialist one.

There is an alternate model for Scotland more like Switzerland. Protecting Scottish jobs and culture, high taxes but also high benefits, controlled immigration and a deal with the EU like the UK has.

 


One more point

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