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 Matov  07 Feb 23 1.51pm |
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If I have to concede a single point about Brexit, it will never be about the opportunities Brexit has offered the UK but rather the inherent lack of willingness of our political/institutional elites to make a success of it. I foolishly/naively expected, once Leave had won, to see the very people tasked with making it a success knuckle down and do so but that has patently failed to happen. Simply put, the very establishment forces that campaigned so hard to keep us inside it have conspired to effectively push us back in. Corporate interests, financial interests, political interests, all of them, for a variety of reasons (some of which are not actually even in the EU's interest), will effectively push us back into it within the next 10 years. The time scale I envisage is this. Starmer wins election based on a solid promise that he will not take us back in. Then, come the first Labour Party conference, a motion will be passed that instructs Labour to order a second referendum. Starmer will then throw his hands up in the air and proclaim that because he is such a stalwart of democracy, he has no choice. And there will be no viable Leave option on the table. Instead we will be given some kind of choice between a ludicrous new deal with the EU or being back inside it. Then choices have to be made. Is this a hill worth staking everything on? And it is now, in my opinion, inevitable for all kinds of reasons
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 07 Feb 23 6.55pm |
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John Major weighing in today:- John Major has launched a scathing attack on Boris Johnson’s handling of Brexit, saying his administration agreed to the Northern Ireland protocol despite knowing it was unworkable. “That must be the first agreement in history that was signed by people who decided it was useless in the first place,” Major told a Westminster committee on Tuesday. The former Conservative prime minister did not name his successor but expressed astonishment at the acceptance of the protocol, which Johnson used to promote an “oven-ready” Brexit deal in the 2019 election. He said Britain’s exit from the EU was a “colossal mistake” that had left the UK outside the world’s main three power blocs. “There is America, there is China and there is the European Union. We should be in Europe.” To think that the country could be so misled and in particular, that the leader of the opposition actually whipped his MPs to support it !!!!
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| Hrolf The Ganger 07 Feb 23 7.19pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
John Major weighing in today:- John Major has launched a scathing attack on Boris Johnson’s handling of Brexit, saying his administration agreed to the Northern Ireland protocol despite knowing it was unworkable. “That must be the first agreement in history that was signed by people who decided it was useless in the first place,” Major told a Westminster committee on Tuesday. The former Conservative prime minister did not name his successor but expressed astonishment at the acceptance of the protocol, which Johnson used to promote an “oven-ready” Brexit deal in the 2019 election. He said Britain’s exit from the EU was a “colossal mistake” that had left the UK outside the world’s main three power blocs. “There is America, there is China and there is the European Union. We should be in Europe.” To think that the country could be so misled and in particular, that the leader of the opposition actually whipped his MPs to support it !!!! Confirming that leaving was a great idea. I just had a look outside and the sky still isn't falling.
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| georgenorman 07 Feb 23 7.23pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
John Major weighing in today:- John Major has launched a scathing attack on Boris Johnson’s handling of Brexit, saying his administration agreed to the Northern Ireland protocol despite knowing it was unworkable. “That must be the first agreement in history that was signed by people who decided it was useless in the first place,” Major told a Westminster committee on Tuesday. The former Conservative prime minister did not name his successor but expressed astonishment at the acceptance of the protocol, which Johnson used to promote an “oven-ready” Brexit deal in the 2019 election. He said Britain’s exit from the EU was a “colossal mistake” that had left the UK outside the world’s main three power blocs. “There is America, there is China and there is the European Union. We should be in Europe.” To think that the country could be so misled and in particular, that the leader of the opposition actually whipped his MPs to support it !!!! What weight does John Major have to weigh in with.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 07 Feb 23 7.33pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
If I have to concede a single point about Brexit, it will never be about the opportunities Brexit has offered the UK but rather the inherent lack of willingness of our political/institutional elites to make a success of it. I foolishly/naively expected, once Leave had won, to see the very people tasked with making it a success knuckle down and do so but that has patently failed to happen. Simply put, the very establishment forces that campaigned so hard to keep us inside it have conspired to effectively push us back in. Corporate interests, financial interests, political interests, all of them, for a variety of reasons (some of which are not actually even in the EU's interest), will effectively push us back into it within the next 10 years. The time scale I envisage is this. Starmer wins election based on a solid promise that he will not take us back in. Then, come the first Labour Party conference, a motion will be passed that instructs Labour to order a second referendum. Starmer will then throw his hands up in the air and proclaim that because he is such a stalwart of democracy, he has no choice. And there will be no viable Leave option on the table. Instead we will be given some kind of choice between a ludicrous new deal with the EU or being back inside it. Then choices have to be made. Is this a hill worth staking everything on? And it is now, in my opinion, inevitable for all kinds of reasons
If Starmer had not acted so foolishly in ordering his party to back the tory deal, which we know as a total con, he would be able to appeal to the voters and rejoin/re-negotiate. As it is, his 'we will make brexit work', nobody believes that. Offer it in an election manifesto, not a referendum everybody is sick of them.
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| Matov 07 Feb 23 10.11pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
If Starmer had not acted so foolishly in ordering his party to back the tory deal, which we know as a total con, he would be able to appeal to the voters and rejoin/re-negotiate. As it is, his 'we will make brexit work', nobody believes that. Offer it in an election manifesto, not a referendum everybody is sick of them. Offering it in the election manifesto would be the honourable thing to do, I concede. But he won't. It will be effectively hoisted on to us. And a second referendum will be offered on the back of a new 'deal' v Rejoin. Suspect there will be a boycott of it but it will not matter. Even a win for 'Rejoin' at less than 17.2 million votes will not matter because they can say that we did leave, as was promised. And then that is it. I genuinely held out hopes that Farage would re-enter the fray and lead 'Reform', which is not polling that badly, but it looks like he is sitting it out from now on. I genuinely cannot see anybody capable of leading a serious campaign to keep us out and the supposed new deal we will be offer will actually made it more sensible to be back on the inside. Which is the point of it. You lot get to win. The 'Last Man', as a mad old Kraut once waxed lyrical about, will triumph.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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PalazioVecchio  south pole 07 Feb 23 11.26pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Confirming that leaving was a great idea. I just had a look outside and the sky still isn't falling. Ireland is still in the EU, and the sky is looking ominous
Eze Peasy at Anfield.... |
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| Matov 08 Feb 23 8.25am |
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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio
Ireland is still in the EU, and the sky is looking ominous
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| PalazioVecchio south pole 08 Feb 23 9.01am |
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Originally posted by Matov
there are coachloads of unvetted Military-age men arriving into towns in the dead of night. Bussed into emergency make-shift accommodation. And all the locals in the towns & villages have started marching to as questions of our EU puppet Government. Rape statistics off the richter scale. Gay men in Sligo getting murdered. Possibility of new Anti-Semitism attacks...Governmental decisions made with zero popular support. And a militaristic attempt to dismantle our military Neutrality......Sinn Fein opposition are also AntiSemitic and March up and down in Uniforms . And our Political Elites are calling concerned citizens 'Hard Right Fanatics ?
Eze Peasy at Anfield.... |
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| PalazioVecchio south pole 08 Feb 23 9.17am |
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Originally posted by Matov
there are coachloads of unvetted Military-age men arriving into towns in the dead of night. Bussed into emergency make-shift accommodation. And all the locals in the towns & villages have started marching to ask questions of our EU puppet Government. Rape statistics off the richter scale. Gay men in Sligo getting murdered. Possibility of new Anti-Semitism attacks...Governmental decisions made with zero popular support. And a militaristic attempt to dismantle our military Neutrality......Sinn Fein opposition are also AntiSemitic and March up and down in Uniforms . They tell us these economic migrants are Ukranian women & children. Yeah, and Brighton is a town in the Orkneys. And our Political Elites are calling concerned citizens 'Hard Right Fanatics ? Edited by PalazioVecchio (08 Feb 2023 9.19am)
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| Matov 08 Feb 23 10.02am |
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But how do they get into Ireland? Are they flown in by the EU?
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| PalazioVecchio south pole 08 Feb 23 10.09am |
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Originally posted by Matov
But how do they get into Ireland? Are they flown in by the EU? you had better ask our Prime Minister, he might answer you when he is not being videod snogging the head off some bloke in a nightclub ( to the detriment of his husband ). Edited by PalazioVecchio (08 Feb 2023 10.11am)
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