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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 21 Jul 21 11.33am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

This makes no sense. How can it be “a theoretical possibility” when “the outbreak started in China”?
This is a verifiable fact unlike Trump’s motivation.

Because the "theoretical possibility" is the "escape from the lab" hypothesis that Trump exploited for his own ends. Not where the first cases were seen.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 21 Jul 21 11.48am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

Thank you for your reply. It doesn't matter what mankind does, the Earth and nature will naturally produce events that change the climate. What I object to is the control that the climate lobby want to place on the rest of us, be that extra taxes, not eating meat, not driving, not going on holiday etc. I believe Extinction Rebellion say that we are in either the 4th or 5th extinction event; all the previous ones occurred before man existed. Hence nature has a way of killing species off 'naturally' by tilts, volcanoes, meteors and whatever. I have no problem with a incentivised move to greener technology (I have solar panels on my roof, have a solar powered watch and have an electric car in the pipeline)...but that is my choice. I don't want to be forced by some movement to do those things.

Whilst natural climate change is obviously a fact, it occurs slowly. How we will have to adjust to it in the future is important, but unknown. Whether we can moderate it, mitigate its impact, or just have to live elsewhere and differently is for tomorrow.

Man-made change is relative recent and rapid. We do have the means to control it. All the forecasts indicate this is an urgent problem, requiring co-ordinated, co-operative action. It simply cannot just be left to the winds of chance and the goodwill of individuals. Incentives and, if needed, compulsion, are required. Not because BIG BROTHER wants to control your life but because your life, and those of your children and grand children, matter and are worth saving.

This is an issue in which collective action is required, and we all need to accept that. Libertarianism does not serve us well for this kind of problem.

 

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View Behind Enemy Lines's Profile Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 21 Jul 21 12.38pm Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Whilst natural climate change is obviously a fact, it occurs slowly. How we will have to adjust to it in the future is important, but unknown. Whether we can moderate it, mitigate its impact, or just have to live elsewhere and differently is for tomorrow.

Man-made change is relative recent and rapid. We do have the means to control it. All the forecasts indicate this is an urgent problem, requiring co-ordinated, co-operative action. It simply cannot just be left to the winds of chance and the goodwill of individuals. Incentives and, if needed, compulsion, are required. Not because BIG BROTHER wants to control your life but because your life, and those of your children and grand children, matter and are worth saving.

This is an issue in which collective action is required, and we all need to accept that. Libertarianism does not serve us well for this kind of problem.

So basically we have to do what the scientists tell us today. All scientific theory is gospel until another scientist disproves or amends it, and then that scientific theory becomes gospel (e.g. Newton and Einstein). My remark re climate change being used as control is confirmed by your comments...in days past YOU would burn in hell if you didn't do the right thing, now if you don't follow the script, YOU, YOUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN will burn on Earth. Fear of the unknown being used to control. Now, you and your scientist friend may well be right; I can accept that is possible, maybe even probable, but I'm not going to beat myself up over it. Take single use plastic bags...if they are so bad, ban them. Make us go back to using paper bags. Same with plastic bottles, go back to returnable glass ones..but that wouldn't raise 10p per use towards whatever the money is used for.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 21 Jul 21 12.54pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

So basically we have to do what the scientists tell us today. All scientific theory is gospel until another scientist disproves or amends it, and then that scientific theory becomes gospel (e.g. Newton and Einstein). My remark re climate change being used as control is confirmed by your comments...in days past YOU would burn in hell if you didn't do the right thing, now if you don't follow the script, YOU, YOUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN will burn on Earth. Fear of the unknown being used to control. Now, you and your scientist friend may well be right; I can accept that is possible, maybe even probable, but I'm not going to beat myself up over it. Take single use plastic bags...if they are so bad, ban them. Make us go back to using paper bags. Same with plastic bottles, go back to returnable glass ones..but that wouldn't raise 10p per use towards whatever the money is used for.

Today's science is rather more precise than in the past, especially in this area, with research groups all over the world reaching broadly similar conclusions. Their view is that man made climate change is no longer a hypothesis, but a fact. Facts don't get disproved. New facts can add knowledge, but the underlying truth won't disappear.

So this isn't "fear of the unknown" being used to control you. It's knowledge being used to protect you, even if you are reluctant to accept the need.

Why not ban things? Best ask the behavioural scientists that question, but I guess the view is that a better result is obtained with co-operation than with coercion. I doubt whether the 10p makes any difference in the overall costs involved, so won't be the motivating factor.

 

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View Lombardinho's Profile Lombardinho Flag London 21 Jul 21 1.05pm Send a Private Message to Lombardinho Add Lombardinho as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

So basically we have to do what the scientists tell us today. All scientific theory is gospel until another scientist disproves or amends it, and then that scientific theory becomes gospel (e.g. Newton and Einstein). My remark re climate change being used as control is confirmed by your comments...in days past YOU would burn in hell if you didn't do the right thing, now if you don't follow the script, YOU, YOUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN will burn on Earth. Fear of the unknown being used to control. Now, you and your scientist friend may well be right; I can accept that is possible, maybe even probable, but I'm not going to beat myself up over it. Take single use plastic bags...if they are so bad, ban them. Make us go back to using paper bags. Same with plastic bottles, go back to returnable glass ones..but that wouldn't raise 10p per use towards whatever the money is used for.

I applaud you for recognising the powers that be controlling us through fear.
Indeed, the talking head on the television we're being urged to identify as Boris Johnson came right out and said it only a week ago. "We're changing the tools for controlling the masses" or words to that effect.
However, you're barking up the wrong tree with climate change.
Especially as there are clearly TWO schools of science : one is being silenced by the media and the other is bent as a nine Bob note.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 21 Jul 21 1.23pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Because the "theoretical possibility" is the "escape from the lab" hypothesis that Trump exploited for his own ends. Not where the first cases were seen.

This supposed exploitation is pure speculation. Where’s the evidence let alone the proof?
It’s possible that it’s just coincidence the virus started independently in an area with a lab concerned with such matters but not likely.

 

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View Behind Enemy Lines's Profile Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 21 Jul 21 1.47pm Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

If things are so bad, they should be banned. 10p may not be much on it's own but multiply that out by the number of plastic bags dished out and it becomes a useful amount. It was 5p when it was first introduced, so the slippery slope of acceptance is already there. With knowledge comes power...said by Bacon and used by Thomas Jefferson. That is where my concern is. Half of me wants to be wrong and in twenty years time we're all living in a stable climate that everybody is in love with. But then Yellowstone erupts and all my efforts are laughed at by nature!

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Today's science is rather more precise than in the past, especially in this area, with research groups all over the world reaching broadly similar conclusions. Their view is that man made climate change is no longer a hypothesis, but a fact. Facts don't get disproved. New facts can add knowledge, but the underlying truth won't disappear.

So this isn't "fear of the unknown" being used to control you. It's knowledge being used to protect you, even if you are reluctant to accept the need.

Why not ban things? Best ask the behavioural scientists that question, but I guess the view is that a better result is obtained with co-operation than with coercion. I doubt whether the 10p makes any difference in the overall costs involved, so won't be the motivating factor.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 21 Jul 21 2.15pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

If things are so bad, they should be banned. 10p may not be much on it's own but multiply that out by the number of plastic bags dished out and it becomes a useful amount. It was 5p when it was first introduced, so the slippery slope of acceptance is already there. With knowledge comes power...said by Bacon and used by Thomas Jefferson. That is where my concern is. Half of me wants to be wrong and in twenty years time we're all living in a stable climate that everybody is in love with. But then Yellowstone erupts and all my efforts are laughed at by nature!

The big question is: will we be out of lockdown by then?

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View Ouzo Dan's Profile Ouzo Dan 21 Jul 21 2.35pm Send a Private Message to Ouzo Dan Add Ouzo Dan as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Yes, because of the timing and motivation.

When Trump made the claim it was just speculation which he then exploited to divert attention from the criticism of his weak response. He politicised the pandemic by describing it as the"China virus".

The WHO are not now saying that this was what happened, but that the possibility ought not be so firmly discounted as they first did.

Totally different. One deserves support. The other condemnation.

Within a week of of the virus going public a university in beijing had concluded that the virus had most likely come from the wuhan lab, the crux of their findings was the species of bat responsible were not native to wuhan but another region the other side of china.

This was public knowledge and the news was broken by Tucker Carlson on his show, it fell on death ears because Trump.

 


Sex Panther 60% of the time it works every time

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 21 Jul 21 3.28pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

This supposed exploitation is pure speculation. Where’s the evidence let alone the proof?
It’s possible that it’s just coincidence the virus started independently in an area with a lab concerned with such matters but not likely.

It's far from speculation. You only had to observe Trump's behaviour last year to witness it for yourself. No need for the filters of TV reporters or other opinions. It was there in plain view. Maybe you didn't follow him quite as avidly as I did!

Someone in the US intelligence community raised this idea as a possibility. Trump was being castigated at the time for his lack of action and jumped all over it. It then became the "China Virus", which was at best a careless release and at worse, a deliberate one.

It was typical Trump. Never apologise. Never accept blame. Accuse others of that you have done yourself. He learned this from Roy Cohn and sticks to it even today.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (21 Jul 2021 3.32pm)

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 21 Jul 21 3.38pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

Within a week of of the virus going public a university in beijing had concluded that the virus had most likely come from the wuhan lab, the crux of their findings was the species of bat responsible were not native to wuhan but another region the other side of china.

This was public knowledge and the news was broken by Tucker Carlson on his show, it fell on death ears because Trump.

There was a great deal of speculation and theories at the time. Some plausible, others not, but none proved. Which remains the case.

People like Tucker Carson ought never be allowed behind a microphone. He might claim it was "news" but it's about as reliable as something from Alex Jones. OK, perhaps not quite as bad, but you get the point. Tucker Carson has always been a sycophantic apologist for Trump. People like him did his PR.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (21 Jul 2021 3.39pm)

 

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View Ouzo Dan's Profile Ouzo Dan 21 Jul 21 4.05pm Send a Private Message to Ouzo Dan Add Ouzo Dan as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

There was a great deal of speculation and theories at the time. Some plausible, others not, but none proved. Which remains the case.

People like Tucker Carson ought never be allowed behind a microphone. He might claim it was "news" but it's about as reliable as something from Alex Jones. OK, perhaps not quite as bad, but you get the point. Tucker Carson has always been a sycophantic apologist for Trump. People like him did his PR.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (21 Jul 2021 3.39pm)

And yet this scientific investigation conducted by this chinese university exists irrespective of who broke the news.
Carlson has the most popular news show in the world, he needs to fact check otherwise he would quickly be called out on it.

The findings were ignored/buried, this is an indisputible fact.

 


Sex Panther 60% of the time it works every time

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