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June 21 2021 1.46am

May 6th 2021 elections thread.

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 07 May 21 11.13am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Too many in the Labour Party hate their own people Working class / white van man "thick racists" Anybody votes for Brexit "thick racists". Come election time "don't forget to vote Labour cos the Tories hate you"

I heard it best described as the 'Easy Jet' view. That you might need to sit down with people you don't particularly want to but it gets you to where you want to go.

With, ironically given the seat in question, Peter Mandleson best summing up the attitude when he claimed the northern working classes had nowhere else to go.

From UKIP breaking the tribal voting patterns via successive European Parliment elections to Gordan Browns 'bigot' comments to the UK signing up fully to the freedom of movement legislation to the grooming scandals to Brexit and numerous points in betweeen, Labour have been effectively ignoring what their traditional voters base wanted.

And now paying the price. With it crystal clear, via the candidate selection for Hartlepool, that they still don't get it.

There was a poll prior to these elections that showed over 40% of working-class voters now supported the Conservatives compared to just over 20% for Labour. That is all you need to know about how utterly smashed Labour is.

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 07 May 21 1.20pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

I am a bit busy at the moment, so these elections have largely passed me by. I was though, for completely unrelated reasons, talking this morning to a County Councillor in Wales, who is a Tory and past leader.

We agreed this was an odd election which has been very much impacted by the pandemic and the euphoria that people are feeling as things ease. Additionally, the Brexit impact, has been blurred by the pandemic and not really hit home yet. Brexit enthusiasts now have no other home than a Johnson led Tory party and retain their motivation.

My own view is that the very low turnout in Hartlepool of only 45.5% confirms this.

So drawing too many long term conclusions would be a mistake. We need an opposition and right now we don't have one. Whether Labour can reposition themselves to represent the huge swathe of people who now feel that no party really shares their values is doubtful. The working class no longer really exists and those that would traditionally fit such a description no longer have strife as their motivating force. Many now vote on populist values and not on principles.

Whether this means a continuous series of open goal elections for a populist version of the Tory Party or the much needed emergence of a new party of the middle ground, with integrity and compassion as its core message, remains to be seen.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 07 May 21 1.25pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am a bit busy at the moment, so these elections have largely passed me by. I was though, for completely unrelated reasons, talking this morning to a County Councillor in Wales, who is a Tory and past leader.

We agreed this was an odd election which has been very much impacted by the pandemic and the euphoria that people are feeling as things ease. Additionally, the Brexit impact, has been blurred by the pandemic and not really hit home yet. Brexit enthusiasts now have no other home than a Johnson led Tory party and retain their motivation.

My own view is that the very low turnout in Hartlepool of only 45.5% confirms this.

So drawing too many long term conclusions would be a mistake. We need an opposition and right now we don't have one. Whether Labour can reposition themselves to represent the huge swathe of people who now feel that no party really shares their values is doubtful. The working class no longer really exists and those that would traditionally fit such a description no longer have strife as their motivating force. Many now vote on populist values and not on principles.

Whether this means a continuous series of open goal elections for a populist version of the Tory Party or the much needed emergence of a new party of the middle ground, with integrity and compassion as its core message, remains to be seen.

I'm sure you just write this stuff to get clicks.

 

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View The Dolphin's Profile The Dolphin Flag 07 May 21 2.30pm Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

Hartlepool is hilarious but I too feel that local elections are being skewed by the current feel good factor of vaccines etc.
Also - that whatever the consequences that we left the EU when we said we would.
Obviously and on top of that is the fact that Starmer just doesn't cut it - he has no charisma.
He is not someone you would want to follow if he was your leader.
I think that the left will again take Labour over and that will be the death of the Party.
If only it were an end to politics.
The UK needs to be run as a business with a social conscience and I would love it to happen in my lifetime - it might - if I live to 200 years old I guess!
Starmer will stand down in the next week I reckon.
Wallpaper and Hartlepool will see to that.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 07 May 21 4.57pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Hartlepool is hilarious but I too feel that local elections are being skewed by the current feel good factor of vaccines etc.


Definitiely helping, allied with Labour just being f***ing useless beyond measure. But there is also something else at play.

See the results for the Teeside Mayor. The sitting Conservative guy achieved 73% of the vote. That's staggering.

And based on him actually being proactive and bringing investment and jobs to the area.

Labour are paying the price for just taking people for granted. This really is a case of them reaping what they sowed. It's staggering how many of the old guard under Blair, including him, held seats with whopping majorities in the NE that are now Tory. With Hartlepool just the latest to fall.

This is not just about vaccines and Brexit. What we are seeing today is confirmation of a major realignment. Labour are now facing, based on this result, a possible loss of another 40 to 50 seats if this was to be replicated in a GE.

Edited by Matov (07 May 2021 4.58pm)

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 07 May 21 5.04pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Matov


Definitiely helping, allied with Labour just being f***ing useless beyond measure. But there is also something else at play.

See the results for the Teeside Mayor. The sitting Conservative guy achieved 73% of the vote. That's staggering.

And based on him actually being proactive and bringing investment and jobs to the area.

Labour are paying the price for just taking people for granted. This really is a case of them reaping what they sowed. It's staggering how many of the old guard under Blair, including him, held seats with whopping majorities in the NE that are now Tory. With Hartlepool just the latest to fall.

This is not just about vaccines and Brexit. What we are seeing today is confirmation of a major realignment. Labour are now facing, based on this result, a possible loss of another 40 to 50 seats if this was to be replicated in a GE.

Edited by Matov (07 May 2021 4.58pm)

Blair and his were really closet tories with a bit of share the wealth to foreigners for votes.
It sort of proves that socialism only happens by force. The kick back in the USA will come along soon.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 07 May 21 5.55pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Bit of chatter out there that maybe the London Mayor race is tighter than expected. Now I cannot see Khan losing in a month of Sunday's but if he does...

No. Must not even hope. Not going to happen. But if it does I think I will quite literally piss myself laughing.

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 07 May 21 6.18pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am a bit busy at the moment, so these elections have largely passed me by. I was though, for completely unrelated reasons, talking this morning to a County Councillor in Wales, who is a Tory and past leader.

We agreed this was an odd election which has been very much impacted by the pandemic and the euphoria that people are feeling as things ease. Additionally, the Brexit impact, has been blurred by the pandemic and not really hit home yet. Brexit enthusiasts now have no other home than a Johnson led Tory party and retain their motivation.

My own view is that the very low turnout in Hartlepool of only 45.5% confirms this.

So drawing too many long term conclusions would be a mistake. We need an opposition and right now we don't have one. Whether Labour can reposition themselves to represent the huge swathe of people who now feel that no party really shares their values is doubtful. The working class no longer really exists and those that would traditionally fit such a description no longer have strife as their motivating force. Many now vote on populist values and not on principles.

Whether this means a continuous series of open goal elections for a populist version of the Tory Party or the much needed emergence of a new party of the middle ground, with integrity and compassion as its core message, remains to be seen.

Funny how you are too busy when results go against you. How predictable you are

 

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View jeeagles's Profile jeeagles Flag 07 May 21 6.53pm Send a Private Message to jeeagles Add jeeagles as a friend

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Hartlepool is hilarious but I too feel that local elections are being skewed by the current feel good factor of vaccines etc.
Also - that whatever the consequences that we left the EU when we said we would.
Obviously and on top of that is the fact that Starmer just doesn't cut it - he has no charisma.
He is not someone you would want to follow if he was your leader.
I think that the left will again take Labour over and that will be the death of the Party.
If only it were an end to politics.
The UK needs to be run as a business with a social conscience and I would love it to happen in my lifetime - it might - if I live to 200 years old I guess!
Starmer will stand down in the next week I reckon.
Wallpaper and Hartlepool will see to that.

I think it's a very likely possibility. He shouldn't have apeased Momentum when he had the chance to expel the racist Jeremy Corbyn. Starmer was voted in as leader with a decent enough mandate. He doesn't need to appeal to that part of the party.

Listening to comments from voters its all be very similar to rumblings that have been silenced for years.

- People don't really like the far left/anti fa/BLM.
- Boris delivered on Brexit and the vaccine, who gives a s*** what wall paper he has.
- Labour has no policies.
- Labour don't seem to understand that people don't want to go back to factory jobs in major industries. Working Class is based on how much money you have at the end of the month and not what they do for a living. The party isn't there so a bunch of highly paid train guards can exploit the rest of the public.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 07 May 21 8.00pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

Funny how you are too busy when results go against you. How predictable you are

When you are in the middle of a house move it wouldn't matter if I had also just won the lottery. I only browse for a few minutes when I put my feet up.

In any case these results haven't "gone against me"! I have no love for the Labour Party. I also don't though have any for the current guise of the Tory Party.

My concern is much more about the lack of any kind of effective opposition and the huge representational gap that exists for people like me, of whom there are many.

If a serious, responsible and ethical new party emerged that presented well-balanced alternatives to the current dross then I am confident it would gain a foothold and eventually prosper.

It's the start up costs that prevent this happening and not the need.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 07 May 21 8.08pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

When you are in the middle of a house move it wouldn't matter if I had also just won the lottery. I only browse for a few minutes when I put my feet up.

In any case these results haven't "gone against me"! I have no love for the Labour Party. I also don't though have any for the current guise of the Tory Party.

My concern is much more about the lack of any kind of effective opposition and the huge representational gap that exists for people like me, of whom there are many.

If a serious, responsible and ethical new party emerged that presented well-balanced alternatives to the current dross then I am confident it would gain a foothold and eventually prosper.

It's the start up costs that prevent this happening and not the need.

Getting a bit foreignerfied in Cornwall is it
Anyhow what alternatives in policy would you like from said party.

 

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View davenotamonkey's Profile davenotamonkey Flag 07 May 21 8.22pm Send a Private Message to davenotamonkey Add davenotamonkey as a friend

Originally posted by Matov


If Labour cannot win back the voters who deserted them for the Brexit party then they are dead in the water. Easy to get caught up in the hyperbole but if this result pans out as it seems to be, then serious questions have to be asked about what future there is for Labour in its current form.

The Hampstead-Hartlepool dichotomy has never been so stark for Labour and the wider left. Simply put, not fit for purpose.

I think I said at the last election (on here, I can't remember TBH) that it at least 2 Labour leaderships are priced into future elections, given the swing, before they can govern.

Labour cannot hope to gain enough of a swing after the last election to have any hope in the next. That suggests there will be another leadership contest and another 3 years to regroup before the following election.

What I hadn't accounted for (obviously) was China flu and the absolute train-wreck Starmer is. I thought Labour would maybe see a bit of sense and start looking to appeal to the "working man", maybe even adopt a rigorous "get our workers to work and our kids to school" drive. But instead we have... well, see the attached. Says it all.

Next leader needs to tack towards Blair to have any hope of challenging for government, but it won't be at the next election that's for sure.

To see the usual idiots clamouring for a push back to the far left... sigh, it's just depressing. We need some actual opposition in this country. Not a party that jumps on the latest identity politics social media meme, and not one that would make Chavez and Castro blush.

thisiswhy.jpg Attachment: thisiswhy.jpg (307.16Kb)

 

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