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June 21 2021 1.58am

May 6th 2021 elections thread.

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 10 May 21 6.12am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Nail on head.

Conservatives have taken the middle ground Labour needed to regain so hard to see any solution for them.

As long as Labour promote pro EU stuff they will never get these seats back, they need to unequivocally make no rejoining the EU a policy foundation.

Swallow the ideological pride and try a making Brexit work strategy.

Project Fear has proved to be generally a load of crap, the vaccination success which would not have happened were we still in is tangible.

Waste of time trying to argue otherwise.

Annelise Dodds career is history, imagine being so crap you were shuffled to replace Angela Rayner.

Originally posted by Matov

But what policies? What policies are going to encourage people who voted Leave to now vote for Labour as opposed to the Tories? What policies are going to be different?

 


Let's see SP and the board trying to line up for a piss in the AW toilets at half time before peddling the new stand. We're the Arthur over here and the facilities are a disgrace

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 10 May 21 7.08am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

So to summarise what has happened:

The ruling parties in England Scotland and Wales all did well I guess a thank you from the voters for the vaccine?

Overall all the Tories did really well considering how long they have been in power. It's for the Tories to lose.

The SNP still has an iron grip on Scotland and will continue to demand more ransomware from Westminster I don't see Indyref2 any time soon. Until Labour can offer a socialist unionist alternative Wee Jimmie is Queen.

In Wales Labour did a remarkable job considering how badly they run the NHS I guess the voters are still loyal to the cause.

As for Starmer the confusion from the last few days highlights his problem. He tried to sack Angela Rayner but as she is elected by the faithful she dug her heels in and demanded another job and he caved. I'm afraid the party will continue to re-arrange the deck chairs no great turnaround anytime soon and it maybe that Starmer is the one who gets fired.

As for Northern Ireland I think there is trouble ahead from the Unionist parties I really hope I'm wrong.

Edited by Badger11 (10 May 2021 7.10am)

 


One more point

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 10 May 21 7.49am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

As for Starmer the confusion from the last few days highlights his problem. He tried to sack Angela Rayner but as she is elected by the faithful she dug her heels in and demanded another job and he caved. I'm afraid the party will continue to re-arrange the deck chairs no great turnaround anytime soon and it maybe that Starmer is the one who gets fired.


Edited by Badger11 (10 May 2021 7.10am)

I suspect that from Starmers POV, just surviving the weekend is a positive. And makes me wonder if all this Rayner stuff was a clever ruse?

On Saturday, all the talk was about if Starmer survives. Then we get the announcement/briefings that Rayner is being sacked. All hell breaks lose. 24 hours later and Rayner is not being sacked. Instead promoted to an office that supposedly shadows Gove. And spun as a promotion.

Here we are on Monday. Starmer still in place. And the left seemingly pacified.

Could have been a master class in changing the narrative.

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 10 May 21 7.59am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

I suspect that from Starmers POV, just surviving the weekend is a positive. And makes me wonder if all this Rayner stuff was a clever ruse?

On Saturday, all the talk was about if Starmer survives. Then we get the announcement/briefings that Rayner is being sacked. All hell breaks lose. 24 hours later and Rayner is not being sacked. Instead promoted to an office that supposedly shadows Gove. And spun as a promotion.

Here we are on Monday. Starmer still in place. And the left seemingly pacified.

Could have been a master class in changing the narrative.

Perhaps or it could be that it is what it appears to be confirmation of weak leadership, having to placate people he doesn't want. I guess time will tell who is right.

Matov you seem to have a good read on politics so I am loath to go against you but for now I will take the events at face value.

 


One more point

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 10 May 21 9.41am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Matov you seem to have a good read on politics so I am loath to go against you but for now I will take the events at face value.

LOL. Trust me, I love it when people disagree and there is a bloody good chance that face value is all there is to it.

But humour me on this. I am nerd for this kind of s*** and will happily see all kinds of things in the tea-leaves when there is nothing at all.


Firstly, Starmer is a wounded animal. Ignore all the spin about Wales and the Mayors, Thursday was catastrophic for Labour for all the reaons already articulated. And solely for the choice of Labour's candidate in the Hartlepool by-election, then heads have to roll. Beyond shocking.

Now Starmer faces two potential risks to his leadership if he has no intention of standing down. The first is a motion of no confidence from his own MP's, which requires (I think) 40 signatures. This then starts of a new leadership contest. Now there are 38 Labour MP's from the Corbynite Left who would happily sign this no matter what and two more could easily be rustled up but they need at least one heavy hitter to join the.

The second is if the TU's rock up to his door and threaten to pull the financial funding that is under pinning the Labour Party which is in dire financial straits at the moment.

With Angela Rayner closely linked to both groups. In terms of the MP's who would sign this motion of no confidence, she is considered to be their representative in the shadow cabinet and I believe she shared (might still) a flat in London with Rebbeca Long-Bailey who is/was Corbyn's chosen heir apparent. And Rayner is also closely linked to the TU's. Once again, she is seen as their closest friend inside the shadow cabinet.

Also, Rayner is Deputy Leader. If Starmer goes/gets pushed, she is the one who automatically steps up.

Now my understanding is that she was putting herself forward to do the round of Sunday morning political talk shows, apparently more than happy to be fed lines from Starmer's people. And I suspect they smelt a rat. Fearing she was intending to rock up on the Andrew Marr show and deliver the stab in the back. Part of a coordinated attack from both the Corybinite wing of the PLP and with the full backing of the Unions.

So Starmer, advised I am 100% sure by the likes of Mandleson and Campbell, decided to go on the attack. Starts briefing about her sacking and all of a sudden the story changes hence we get the hysteria.

Meaning that she does not get the chance to go on the television and signal the rebellion the following morning. For those crucial 24 hours she was not in the Shadow Cabinet and even if she still goes ahead with this possible attack on Starmer, it can be put down to just her spite coming to the fore.

24 hours later she is back in the Shadow Cabinet, the rebellion has been headed off for now and Starmer gets to start the week still in charge with no formal challenge to his leadership underway.

Now, if this scenario is in anyway true, Starmer is still deep in the s*** but he gets to start the week still in situ. He has bought himself time.

However, he could just be a f***ing moron. All possible!

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 10 May 21 9.16pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

LOL. Trust me, I love it when people disagree and there is a bloody good chance that face value is all there is to it.

But humour me on this. I am nerd for this kind of s*** and will happily see all kinds of things in the tea-leaves when there is nothing at all.


Firstly, Starmer is a wounded animal. Ignore all the spin about Wales and the Mayors, Thursday was catastrophic for Labour for all the reaons already articulated. And solely for the choice of Labour's candidate in the Hartlepool by-election, then heads have to roll. Beyond shocking.

Now Starmer faces two potential risks to his leadership if he has no intention of standing down. The first is a motion of no confidence from his own MP's, which requires (I think) 40 signatures. This then starts of a new leadership contest. Now there are 38 Labour MP's from the Corbynite Left who would happily sign this no matter what and two more could easily be rustled up but they need at least one heavy hitter to join the.

The second is if the TU's rock up to his door and threaten to pull the financial funding that is under pinning the Labour Party which is in dire financial straits at the moment.

With Angela Rayner closely linked to both groups. In terms of the MP's who would sign this motion of no confidence, she is considered to be their representative in the shadow cabinet and I believe she shared (might still) a flat in London with Rebbeca Long-Bailey who is/was Corbyn's chosen heir apparent. And Rayner is also closely linked to the TU's. Once again, she is seen as their closest friend inside the shadow cabinet.

Also, Rayner is Deputy Leader. If Starmer goes/gets pushed, she is the one who automatically steps up.

Now my understanding is that she was putting herself forward to do the round of Sunday morning political talk shows, apparently more than happy to be fed lines from Starmer's people. And I suspect they smelt a rat. Fearing she was intending to rock up on the Andrew Marr show and deliver the stab in the back. Part of a coordinated attack from both the Corybinite wing of the PLP and with the full backing of the Unions.

So Starmer, advised I am 100% sure by the likes of Mandleson and Campbell, decided to go on the attack. Starts briefing about her sacking and all of a sudden the story changes hence we get the hysteria.

Meaning that she does not get the chance to go on the television and signal the rebellion the following morning. For those crucial 24 hours she was not in the Shadow Cabinet and even if she still goes ahead with this possible attack on Starmer, it can be put down to just her spite coming to the fore.

24 hours later she is back in the Shadow Cabinet, the rebellion has been headed off for now and Starmer gets to start the week still in charge with no formal challenge to his leadership underway.

Now, if this scenario is in anyway true, Starmer is still deep in the s*** but he gets to start the week still in situ. He has bought himself time.

However, he could just be a f***ing moron. All possible!

All that for the last line .
Very interesting about raynor wanted to go full on anti kier. Left eating the left in all guises.

 

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 11 May 21 12.54am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

The Deputy Leader does not step up if the leader goes, there will have to be another leadership election.

Referencing the outgoing Shadow Chancellor, can you imagine being held in such low esteem by your boss that when sacked you are moved sideways to replace Angela Rayner, Star Wars shoes and all

 


Let's see SP and the board trying to line up for a piss in the AW toilets at half time before peddling the new stand. We're the Arthur over here and the facilities are a disgrace

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 11 May 21 8.44am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

The Deputy Leader does not step up if the leader goes, there will have to be another leadership election.

No but they get to take temporary charge (or so I believe) whilst the process takes place. And that is crucial because my understanding is that the big change Starmer is rumoured to want to bring about is fundamentally changing the entire leadership selection process. Primarily because this was what caused Corbyn to come to power in the first place.

All the text message malarkey that swelled Labours ranks and then Corbyn, who was only ever meant to be the token Left challenger, goes on and wins. Not one but also twice by bloody big margins.

Which is why I feel they feared, and still do, Rayner so much. I cannot imagine any other potential candidate at the moment who probably appeals as much to the membership and the PLP as well.

She is the danger for Starmer. Nobody else.

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 12 May 21 9.41am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Just had a quick read of the BBS on the Hartlepool outcome. Very predictably most on there are blaming the voters for being stupid and not understanding what they were voting for.

That just about sums up the hard left, blame the voters never the policies.

And naturally they are outraged over the bill to force people to provide photo id when they vote.

So hands up if you don't have one of the following:

Passport
Photo Driving Licence
Freedom Pass / Oyster photo card
EU Id Card (loads of Remainers must have this)
others*

*The government has not yet announced the list so I expect there will be some horse trading in the trial I took part in they included birth certificate, and utility bills.

I got a provisional driving licence (20-30).

Now all the government needs to do is sort out the people on the roll who shouldn't be there and the postal voting fraud.


Edited by Badger11 (12 May 2021 9.51am)

 


One more point

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 12 May 21 12.39pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

The basic point where Labour need to change is to highlight tax abuses. Ensure the wealthiest pay tax and reduce the tax burden on the average worker. That will give them votes. Improve services, highlight that. That would give them votes.
They need to take any identity politics and groupings out of their rhetoric. It doesn't go down well with the less wealthy, it's more suited to bearded focus groups in 'uni'.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 12 May 21 2.31pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

The basic point where Labour need to change is to highlight tax abuses. Ensure the wealthiest pay tax and reduce the tax burden on the average worker. That will give them votes. Improve services, highlight that. That would give them votes.
They need to take any identity politics and groupings out of their rhetoric. It doesn't go down well with the less wealthy, it's more suited to bearded focus groups in 'uni'.

The solution to the tax issue is simple.
Flat rate on all you earn above 12500
Say 15% then say 5% NI , none of this upper limits, just a flat amount across the board.
From every pound you earn hmg gets 20p.
That's not hard to do and this would be before any philanthropy and other 'ways around'.
Those figures were for an ie only. Danh and others would know more about earnings and tax in the UK I'm sure as they are money peoples.
Now that's a vote winner

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 12 May 21 2.42pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

The solution to the tax issue is simple.
Flat rate on all you earn above 12500
Say 15% then say 5% NI , none of this upper limits, just a flat amount across the board.
From every pound you earn hmg gets 20p.
That's not hard to do and this would be before any philanthropy and other 'ways around'.
Those figures were for an ie only. Danh and others would know more about earnings and tax in the UK I'm sure as they are money peoples.
Now that's a vote winner

Fair comment. The other part of this would be to have a flat rate corporate rax, with no loopholes. Keep it low but ensure everyone pays. No more rich or corporate tax dodgers. I think most would agree with that.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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