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June 21 2021 2.32am

‘Educated voters’ leftward shift’

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View cardiff eagle's Profile cardiff eagle Flag 28 May 21 8.56am Send a Private Message to cardiff eagle Add cardiff eagle as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

Haha, I do alright for myself certainly but nowhere near ‘wealthy’ (would be interesting to know what were the definitions on this study)

In all seriousness, there’s a whole bigger conversation to be had around income levels and ability to purchase property that ties in with this. You have a lot of people that are university graduates and in decent careers with well paying jobs when compared to median/mode incomes in this country but still struggle to get on the housing ladder due to cost of rent/living being so high, especially in London. Over the period of this study the gap between average earnings and average house price has only continued to grow and grow.

The problem is young people in London moan about not being able to afford a house in London as if they have a god given right too. Most people can’t afford to live there so live outside of London instead where house prices are cheaper. There are so many first time buyer schemes and ways of getting on the ladder now- many choose not to as they’d rather spend 600 a month on a room in Clapham which is completely their choice but they can’t then moan about it imo.

 

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View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 28 May 21 9.00am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by cardiff eagle

The problem is young people in London moan about not being able to afford a house in London as if they have a god given right too. Most people can’t afford to live there so live outside of London instead where house prices are cheaper. There are so many first time buyer schemes and ways of getting on the ladder now- many choose not to as they’d rather spend 600 a month on a room in Clapham which is completely their choice but they can’t then moan about it imo.

Oh I agree, but it’s something that previous generations didn’t have to contend with to the same extent. Even in the commuter belt, house prices have skyrocketed. One of the few good things about Covid should see this start to plateau though as a lot of jobs become more location agnostic and the need to live in the same locations as/close to your workplace becomes less great.

Edited by DanH (28 May 2021 9.01am)

 


Tw@tter:

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 28 May 21 9.05am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

Haha, I do alright for myself certainly but nowhere near ‘wealthy’ (would be interesting to know what were the definitions on this study)

In all seriousness, there’s a whole bigger conversation to be had around income levels and ability to purchase property that ties in with this. You have a lot of people that are university graduates and in decent careers with well paying jobs when compared to median/mode incomes in this country but still struggle to get on the housing ladder due to cost of rent/living being so high, especially in London. Over the period of this study the gap between average earnings and average house price has only continued to grow and grow.

You want more and more people (left voters) relentlessly being imported into England, this is what you’re going to get. Housing issues.

 


COYP

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 28 May 21 9.08am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by martin2412

The reason that there's a lot more people going to university now is down to Blair's 'education education education' policy/con.

He made it so easy for kids to go on to uni and took away the reward of getting there on merit. And he did this for one reason only, and that was so that they didn't go onto the jobless figures when they came out of school, which made him look like he had tackled unemployment. The result though was that degrees were ten-a-penny, and became worthless.

Media studies anyone ?

I don't blame the kids for taking the opportunity of going on to further education though. I would probably have done the same if it was available to everyone when I left school. I mean, who wouldn't want three years away from their parents at that age, and be out on the lash with your mates all the time ?

The other legacy of all these kids going to uni though is tuition fees. The government can't afford to fund them all.

I thought they spent their time contacting football websites with useless surveys like the current one on here about activism in sport.

Tuition fees and the costs of going to can be dropped if the universities are prepared to change. Online teaching has shown the way. Universities could also reduce the 3 years to 2 for some course although this would mean that the lecturers might actually have to teach instead of spending their time pursuing their own personal projects.

As for degrees that we actually need e.g. Medicine 5 years working in the NHS the government should wipe the debt clear.

 


One more point

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 28 May 21 9.11am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

Oh I agree, but it’s something that previous generations didn’t have to contend with to the same extent. Even in the commuter belt, house prices have skyrocketed. One of the few good things about Covid should see this start to plateau though as a lot of jobs become more location agnostic and the need to live in the same locations as/close to your workplace becomes less great.

Edited by DanH (28 May 2021 9.01am)

They’ll get a shock when they move to SE England suburbia or outer zones but still busy but without the graduate crowd and find it’s just the same as the suburbs they grew up in and left as soon as they could and tried not to go back to it for too long between university and career ladder.

 


COYP

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View martin2412's Profile martin2412 Flag The Big Wide World 28 May 21 9.14am Send a Private Message to martin2412 Add martin2412 as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

I thought they spent their time contacting football websites with useless surveys like the current one on here about activism in sport.

Tuition fees and the costs of going to can be dropped if the universities are prepared to change. Online teaching has shown the way. Universities could also reduce the 3 years to 2 for some course although this would mean that the lecturers might actually have to teach instead of spending their time pursuing their own personal projects.

As for degrees that we actually need e.g. Medicine 5 years working in the NHS the government should wipe the debt clear.[/quote]

I'd agree with that. Although if they then went on to private practise, then they should be made to pay back the cost of their courses in full.

 

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View Seagles's Profile Seagles Flag Croydon 28 May 21 9.36am Send a Private Message to Seagles Add Seagles as a friend

Less educated people are more likely to vote against their actual beliefs, a study by UCR found this year. They are more likely to support left wing policies such as housing aid, welfare for unemployed, help for poorer students, financial aid to get people into the NHS etc. But that doesn't translate into voting for those policies. The less educated voters are more susceptible to the "demagogue candidate" who uses "caricatured notions of left and right to position himself before less attentive voters". Eg Trump or Boris. A politician can get less educated people to vote for them by politicising anti immigration or anti-establishment and these voters will not only vote against their own belief systems but against their own self interest as well.

To quote another poster in this thread:
'It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.' (Anon)

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 28 May 21 9.43am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

Haha, I do alright for myself certainly but nowhere near ‘wealthy’ (would be interesting to know what were the definitions on this study)

In all seriousness, there’s a whole bigger conversation to be had around income levels and ability to purchase property that ties in with this. You have a lot of people that are university graduates and in decent careers with well paying jobs when compared to median/mode incomes in this country but still struggle to get on the housing ladder due to cost of rent/living being so high, especially in London. Over the period of this study the gap between average earnings and average house price has only continued to grow and grow.

That’s true but previous generations didn’t feel pressured into owning property and of course there was much more affordable rented accommodation available. There was a change in attitude, probably in the 80’s, when people started thinking of their property as an asset which could be traded up rather than as a home. The situation has become more serious with more people cashing in and leaving cities to move into areas which are more affordable and are constantly expanding but don’t have the infrastructure, particularly health and education-wise, to support them.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 28 May 21 9.57am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Seagles

Less educated people are more likely to vote against their actual beliefs, a study by UCR found this year. They are more likely to support left wing policies such as housing aid, welfare for unemployed, help for poorer students, financial aid to get people into the NHS etc. But that doesn't translate into voting for those policies. The less educated voters are more susceptible to the "demagogue candidate" who uses "caricatured notions of left and right to position himself before less attentive voters". Eg Trump or Boris. A politician can get less educated people to vote for them by politicising anti immigration or anti-establishment and these voters will not only vote against their own belief systems but against their own self interest as well.

To quote another poster in this thread:
'It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.' (Anon)

That just reads you and the author don’t like what the majority think and feel, and very likely felt for a long time, but finally had someone come in and represent them/these opinions.

 


COYP

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View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 28 May 21 10.49am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Is there any weight in the theory that wealthy people and less educated tend to vote right wing out of self interest but for different reasons? Wealthy out of more selfish/greedy purposes and the less educated because probably on lower incomes so only interested in (rightly) looking out for themselves/families and making ends meet.

 


Tw@tter:

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 28 May 21 10.58am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

I think it’s fair to say that those in the education system longer are a bit more sheltered and less ‘street smart’ when it comes to the ‘real world’ of the work place, but I think labelling those educated as ‘brainwashed’ is extremely lazy and unhelpful.

Edited by DanH (28 May 2021 12.02am)

I went to the University of Life and it is s***. Expensive drinks, rubbish qualifications and very little sense of the fraternity that truly matters when it comes to moving on in this world. If I have my time over again, would happily swap the street smarts for a proper degree.

But, and this is where I have to take umbrage with your title, I am becoming more and more convinced that how we define 'educated' is becoming diluted.

For example, the driving forces behind the second Brexit referendum push, were primarily people who would define themselves as 'educated'. And it was insanity. Utter madness. There could be no second referendum without a general election which delivered a majority of MP's in favour and no general election, based on the available constituency break down data of how people voted in both 2016 and the Euro elections of 2019, would deliver that. Impossible. All the evidence was there for anybody to discover and yet, the supposedly brightest minds in the UK, did not bother.

Now I have bored you all enough with my theory that the people's vote was actually nothing more than a pressure group to rid Labour of Corbyn but enough, supposedly, educated people, backed it at face value anyway.

I have zero problems with the most intelligent people being the one's who make it into positions of leadership at all levels.

But given that the supposedly brightest have, so far this century, bought us the invasion of Iraq, the destabilising of Libya, the financial crash of 2008, the 'second referendum' campaign and so on, I reserve the right to look down my 'ill-educated nose at them and hold them in utter scorn.

And have to question why, when we have so many people now with University degrees being given almost exclusive access to many, many career ladders, that nothing seems to be done right anymore?


Edited by Matov (28 May 2021 11.02am)

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 28 May 21 11.12am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

Is there any weight in the theory that wealthy people and less educated tend to vote right wing out of self interest but for different reasons? Wealthy out of more selfish/greedy purposes and the less educated because probably on lower incomes so only interested in (rightly) looking out for themselves/families and making ends meet.

Possibly, but what did Tony Blair actually do for those struggling apart from sure start or chucking a bit of cash around temporarily? Luckily England is a country with a lot of ambitious people, and a minority, even if they cost a fortune, of people making benefits a life option.

Where your thinking does ring true is working tax credits, or I think it being included in Universal Credit or whatever they’re calling it. Full time or can’t quite get full time hours workers needing government top ups. Now this does mean consumers may be slightly better off with lower prices seeing as youngsters living at home aren’t requiring this extra pay that’s either covered in the consumer paying higher prices or higher taxes, but it’s the big corporations and shareholders based in Qatar and The Cayman Islands who are benefiting from this policy. So it’s only really the extremely rich who are benefiting from anything. Everyone else is being squeezed.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (28 May 2021 11.13am)

 


COYP

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