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June 21 2021 2.38am

‘Educated voters’ leftward shift’

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 28 May 21 12.24pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by mezzer

I think they absolutely believed it would happen because they never truly encountered anyone who thought differently to them. Or if they did, those who thought differently "didn't understand".

Not the instigators. Not the people at the very top who were, in the main, people still within the Labour party during the 2017 electoral campaign. Senior posts. You can even see their message exchanges which were leaked, when the exit polls came out. They were gutted. They 100% believed that Corbyn was going to lose badly. Absolutely distraught when he did as well as he did.

And within 6 months, many of them gone. All into either the Peoples Vote campaign or else organsiations pushing for the same agenda.

My argument is that all the data was available, in the public sphere, let alone what any organisation with their own internal research capability could garner, for anybody with anything even approaching a modicum of political nous to see how potentially disastrous a manifesto pledge around offering a second referendum on Brexit, with a remain option on the ballot, was.

And then following the results of the 2019 Euro elections, even more so.

Hence why I can only believe that anybody pushing for a second referendum via the Labour Party either did so because they knew it would smash the parties chances of winning an election (and let's not forget that the Tories margin of victory in 2017 was around the 2%-3% mark) and thus destroy Corbyn and his cronies.

Or they were thick as f***. Myopic arseholes who could not see further than their virtue signalling narcissism. Seriously stupid people, unable to even begin to comprehend how the British electoral system works and how the available voting patterns showed a second referendum policy was a guarantee of utter failure for anybody pushing it.

With the proof in the pudding. December 13th 2019 offering every bit of evidence required.

That simple.


Edited by Matov (28 May 2021 12.28pm)

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 28 May 21 2.15pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

Not the instigators. Not the people at the very top who were, in the main, people still within the Labour party during the 2017 electoral campaign. Senior posts. You can even see their message exchanges which were leaked, when the exit polls came out. They were gutted. They 100% believed that Corbyn was going to lose badly. Absolutely distraught when he did as well as he did.

And within 6 months, many of them gone. All into either the Peoples Vote campaign or else organsiations pushing for the same agenda.

My argument is that all the data was available, in the public sphere, let alone what any organisation with their own internal research capability could garner, for anybody with anything even approaching a modicum of political nous to see how potentially disastrous a manifesto pledge around offering a second referendum on Brexit, with a remain option on the ballot, was.

And then following the results of the 2019 Euro elections, even more so.

Hence why I can only believe that anybody pushing for a second referendum via the Labour Party either did so because they knew it would smash the parties chances of winning an election (and let's not forget that the Tories margin of victory in 2017 was around the 2%-3% mark) and thus destroy Corbyn and his cronies.

Or they were thick as f***. Myopic arseholes who could not see further than their virtue signalling narcissism. Seriously stupid people, unable to even begin to comprehend how the British electoral system works and how the available voting patterns showed a second referendum policy was a guarantee of utter failure for anybody pushing it.

With the proof in the pudding. December 13th 2019 offering every bit of evidence required.

That simple.


Edited by Matov (28 May 2021 12.28pm)

With the icing on said pudding being the selection of a committed remain candidate in 70% leave hartlepool

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 28 May 21 2.21pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think you are being very kind.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 May 2021 11.33am)

It's my fluffy "liberal" nature. &#128521;

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 28 May 21 2.53pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

But the outcome of pushing a second referendum manifesto promise was not 'fluid'. The data was there. In plain sight. With huge amounts of electoral evidence to back it up.

And yet Labour still end up with their manifesto pledge, pushed by supposedly 'educated' people. Electoral suicide. They ended up getting slaughtered with only the Brexit Party saving them from even worse.

You can argue about IQ's all you want but the reality is that if you though a second referendum was an idea that was going to go down well in a general election then you are as thick as s***. Far dumber than any of the most ignorant Brexiteers you chose to look down your noses at.

Beyond belief really and I don't believe those people at the top of the People Vote campaign, and their allies within the PLP, ever truly believed it would happen. All I see is a very machiavellian step to make Corbyn, and the wider Left, lose their grip on the Labour Party.

The real brain-deads are those who bought the hype. Dumber than a box of frogs.

I was a remain and still am. I genuinely believe that a 2nd referendum within a year would have produced an overwhelming remain vote given the 48% would repeat their vote but given a large chunk of leavers voted for reasons wholly unconnected with the EU I was confident the leave vote would melt away.

Obviously I scanned past the fact that it was a one off and - the subject of this post - was quietly part of the deeply condescending patrician attitude of those who believed the simple folk would either come to their senses or do what they usually do and stay away.

However after 3 years the public was sick of it and the issue was dead. If it meant the British Isles sinking into the Atlantic the public would still have reaffirmed leave. 2019 rammed the nail into the coffin and remain was buried.

Tory remainers saw the point and kept schtum. The SNP used it as leverage for other reasons. The lib dems persisted with zero profit but at least could justify it as maintenance of their ideals.

Labour!? In a deeply divided party and nation what were they thinking having that on their manifesto? How disconnected was it possible to be?

Dumb is the word.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 28 May 21 8.20pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

But that is not Leftist politics Hrolf. In fact, it could equally be argued to be on the other side. After all, what is more right wing free market policy than allowing the unfettered movement of labour to flow where the work is?

Not a traditional Leftist policy but one that the new Left seems to embrace.

We know the rich elites want it, but rich does not equal Right wing.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 28 May 21 9.29pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

I was a remain and still am.


I hate to break this to you but Remain is history. Done and dusted.

Believing that the UK should rejoin the EU is a valid political position to hold but the Remain option ended back in 2016.

And the failure by many to grasp that has led to Boris Johnson now looking like he is in Number 10 for as long as he wants.

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 28 May 21 10.58pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

The Labour politburo still believe that the huge number of ex Labour voters who voted Conservative in 2019 became thick as they put the cross on the ballot.

When they voted Brexit they had simply become gullible racists but not yet thick enough not to vote Labour.

 


Let's see SP and the board trying to line up for a piss in the AW toilets at half time before peddling the new stand. We're the Arthur over here and the facilities are a disgrace

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 28 May 21 11.02pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Surely as we have Brexited you should be rejoin as remain is no longer a thing.

Originally posted by silvertop

I was a remain and still am. I genuinely believe that a 2nd referendum within a year would have produced an overwhelming remain vote given the 48% would repeat their vote but given a large chunk of leavers voted for reasons wholly unconnected with the EU I was confident the leave vote would melt away.

Obviously I scanned past the fact that it was a one off and - the subject of this post - was quietly part of the deeply condescending patrician attitude of those who believed the simple folk would either come to their senses or do what they usually do and stay away.

However after 3 years the public was sick of it and the issue was dead. If it meant the British Isles sinking into the Atlantic the public would still have reaffirmed leave. 2019 rammed the nail into the coffin and remain was buried.

Tory remainers saw the point and kept schtum. The SNP used it as leverage for other reasons. The lib dems persisted with zero profit but at least could justify it as maintenance of their ideals.

Labour!? In a deeply divided party and nation what were they thinking having that on their manifesto? How disconnected was it possible to be?

Dumb is the word.

 


Let's see SP and the board trying to line up for a piss in the AW toilets at half time before peddling the new stand. We're the Arthur over here and the facilities are a disgrace

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 29 May 21 10.17am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

People who are highly educated have no choice but to appear totally left wing in every aspect, particularly at academic institutions, otherwise they would either get the sack, get moved 'sideways' or be generally vilified for their 'racist' or 'fascist' views. One only has to look at the careers of people such as David Starkey or Douglas Murray. They've spoken out; they're going nowhere now.
I'm as educated as it gets, I have a sentence after my name. I have also worked my entire life. I have stepped down from academia due to the stifling atmosphere of censorship, on thought, speech and particularly research funding. On the odd occasion, I will critique some research (truthfully, so usually negatively), I write the odd bit of my own hobby stuff. However, as per the original post, and to answer the original question: I was born poor and was always Labour. I'm old Labour. I haven't voted for Labour since John Smith. I don't believe they represent the working class, or even equality. They highlight working class people's genuine concerns as 'fascist' or 'racist' rather than deal with those concerns. They champion immigrants without any consideration of the actual context. They highlight minority rights over the rights of everyone. The whole party is a joke. The left wing has been taken over by people who are basically the commintern for the few, not the many. The average person's view is 'bias' or 'prejudice' and literally everything is 'offensive'. There is no policy for the masses, they are actually anti-the British person. Who votes for their own hangman? You know the answer and are living in the consequences of that.
The only way Labour will ever win again will be a massive Tory cock up, most likely the economy. Unfortunately, there probably is a decent chance of that at some stage. Whether Labour can ever get their sh1t together, even then, is another question.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 29 May 21 12.13pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

People who are highly educated have no choice but to appear totally left wing in every aspect, particularly at academic institutions, otherwise they would either get the sack, get moved 'sideways' or be generally vilified for their 'racist' or 'fascist' views. One only has to look at the careers of people such as David Starkey or Douglas Murray. They've spoken out; they're going nowhere now.
I'm as educated as it gets, I have a sentence after my name. I have also worked my entire life. I have stepped down from academia due to the stifling atmosphere of censorship, on thought, speech and particularly research funding. On the odd occasion, I will critique some research (truthfully, so usually negatively), I write the odd bit of my own hobby stuff. However, as per the original post, and to answer the original question: I was born poor and was always Labour. I'm old Labour. I haven't voted for Labour since John Smith. I don't believe they represent the working class, or even equality. They highlight working class people's genuine concerns as 'fascist' or 'racist' rather than deal with those concerns. They champion immigrants without any consideration of the actual context. They highlight minority rights over the rights of everyone. The whole party is a joke. The left wing has been taken over by people who are basically the commintern for the few, not the many. The average person's view is 'bias' or 'prejudice' and literally everything is 'offensive'. There is no policy for the masses, they are actually anti-the British person. Who votes for their own hangman? You know the answer and are living in the consequences of that.
The only way Labour will ever win again will be a massive Tory cock up, most likely the economy. Unfortunately, there probably is a decent chance of that at some stage. Whether Labour can ever get their sh1t together, even then, is another question.

I'm sure there are some people who are really pleased about that
My message to them would be, don't be too happy, it might be you next.
Who knows what next years wrong thinking will be.


Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (29 May 2021 12.18pm)

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 29 May 21 4.28pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

People who are highly educated have no choice but to appear totally left wing in every aspect, particularly at academic institutions, otherwise they would either get the sack, get moved 'sideways' or be generally vilified for their 'racist' or 'fascist' views. One only has to look at the careers of people such as David Starkey or Douglas Murray. They've spoken out; they're going nowhere now.
I'm as educated as it gets, I have a sentence after my name. I have also worked my entire life. I have stepped down from academia due to the stifling atmosphere of censorship, on thought, speech and particularly research funding. On the odd occasion, I will critique some research (truthfully, so usually negatively), I write the odd bit of my own hobby stuff. However, as per the original post, and to answer the original question: I was born poor and was always Labour. I'm old Labour. I haven't voted for Labour since John Smith. I don't believe they represent the working class, or even equality. They highlight working class people's genuine concerns as 'fascist' or 'racist' rather than deal with those concerns. They champion immigrants without any consideration of the actual context. They highlight minority rights over the rights of everyone. The whole party is a joke. The left wing has been taken over by people who are basically the commintern for the few, not the many. The average person's view is 'bias' or 'prejudice' and literally everything is 'offensive'. There is no policy for the masses, they are actually anti-the British person. Who votes for their own hangman? You know the answer and are living in the consequences of that.
The only way Labour will ever win again will be a massive Tory cock up, most likely the economy. Unfortunately, there probably is a decent chance of that at some stage. Whether Labour can ever get their sh1t together, even then, is another question.

Great post - couldn't agree more.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 29 May 21 4.48pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

People who are highly educated have no choice but to appear totally left wing in every aspect, particularly at academic institutions, otherwise they would either get the sack, get moved 'sideways' or be generally vilified for their 'racist' or 'fascist' views. One only has to look at the careers of people such as David Starkey or Douglas Murray. They've spoken out; they're going nowhere now.
I'm as educated as it gets, I have a sentence after my name. I have also worked my entire life. I have stepped down from academia due to the stifling atmosphere of censorship, on thought, speech and particularly research funding. On the odd occasion, I will critique some research (truthfully, so usually negatively), I write the odd bit of my own hobby stuff. However, as per the original post, and to answer the original question: I was born poor and was always Labour. I'm old Labour. I haven't voted for Labour since John Smith. I don't believe they represent the working class, or even equality. They highlight working class people's genuine concerns as 'fascist' or 'racist' rather than deal with those concerns. They champion immigrants without any consideration of the actual context. They highlight minority rights over the rights of everyone. The whole party is a joke. The left wing has been taken over by people who are basically the commintern for the few, not the many. The average person's view is 'bias' or 'prejudice' and literally everything is 'offensive'. There is no policy for the masses, they are actually anti-the British person. Who votes for their own hangman? You know the answer and are living in the consequences of that.
The only way Labour will ever win again will be a massive Tory cock up, most likely the economy. Unfortunately, there probably is a decent chance of that at some stage. Whether Labour can ever get their sh1t together, even then, is another question.


Yep, excellent points.

When the right were in charge of the institutions the left were openly allowed to work within them and there was a commitment to free speech and opinion, which allowed the left to spread their ideas....back then those left wing ideas were also more committed to free speech than even the right....especially the religious right in the US.

However, as the balance shifted and the right became more and more a minority within public and eventually even private institutions we haven't seen the same commitment to free speech and opinion from the modern left. Indeed, what they have done is abuse the power they found themselves with.

Now people know they will be fired for even expressing views that were commonplace and indeed views that most of the population still hold.....example being, you can only be born a woman not become one.....A commonplace opinion that would now get you sacked.

Edited by Stirlingsays (29 May 2021 4.49pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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