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June 21 2021 2.35am

‘Educated voters’ leftward shift’

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 28 May 21 11.13am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Now you are into a very big subject.

I'd say that many Leftists are totally brainwashed by the rich to believe in immigration and the rights of virtually every other race, colour and creed except their own.

But that is not leftist politics Hrolf. In fact, it could equally be argued to be on the other side. After all, what is more right wing free market policy than allowing the unfettered movement of labour to flow where the work is?

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 28 May 21 11.14am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

I went to the University of Life and it is s***. Expensive drinks, rubbish qualifications and very little sense of the fraternity that truly matters when it comes to moving on in this world. If I have my time over again, would happily swap the street smarts for a proper degree.

But, and this is where I have to take umbrage with your title, I am becoming more and more convinced that how we define 'educated' is becoming diluted.

For example, the driving forces behind the second Brexit referendum push, were primarily people who would define themselves as 'educated'. And it was insanity. Utter madness. There could be no second referendum without a general election which delivered a majority of MP's in favour and no general election, based on the available constituency break down data of how people voted in both 2016 and the Euro elections of 2019, would deliver that. Impossible. All the evidence was there for anybody to discover and yet, the supposedly brightest minds in the UK, did not bother.

Now I have bored you all enough with my theory that the people's vote was actually nothing more than a pressure group to rid Labour of Corbyn but enough, supposedly, educated people, backed it at face value anyway.

I have zero problems with the most intelligent people being the one's who make it into positions of leadership at all levels.

But given that the supposedly brightest have, so far this century, bought us the invasion of Iraq, the destabilising of Libya, the financial crash of 2008, the 'second referendum' campaign and so on, I reserve the right to look down my 'ill-educated nose at them and hold them in utter scorn.

And have to question why, when we have so many people now with University degrees being given almost exclusive access to many, many career ladders, that nothing seems to be done right anymore?

Edited by Matov (28 May 2021 11.02am)

Excellent post.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 28 May 21 11.19am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

I will repeat, I don't read any "right winger"
On here who has totally rejected all "left wing" Policies. Heck even boris gets it from them.
I do though see that a lot of lefties would not accept any right policy. At all ever.
Just because it isn't a lefty policy.
Do you not think that's strange and why is that.

Depends on the policies. Some on here consider me to the left, although I embrace a lot of the right where it suits.

If you are saying that the progressive metropolitan elite types will not accept any part of the new populist right (and too many words in that sentence that could justify parenthesis) than you may be right. well, not at least not openly if they are in the company of another member of their group.

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 28 May 21 11.26am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Excellent post.

It is, but on all fairness the remoaner cry has all but vanished since the general election.

And the reason why the educated keep mucking it up is because outcomes are unpredictable in a fluid ever-changing world and the need to please everyone to justify their mandate and the impossibility of achieving that. That is, the tasks are very very hard.

 

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View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 28 May 21 11.28am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

It is, but on all fairness the remoaner cry has all but vanished since the general election.

And the reason why the educated keep mucking it up is because outcomes are unpredictable in a fluid ever-changing world and the need to please everyone to justify their mandate and the impossibility of achieving that. That is, the tasks are very very hard.

Completely agree with the second para.

 


Tw@tter:

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 28 May 21 11.32am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

It is, but on all fairness the remoaner cry has all but vanished since the general election.

And the reason why the educated keep mucking it up is because outcomes are unpredictable in a fluid ever-changing world and the need to please everyone to justify their mandate and the impossibility of achieving that. That is, the tasks are very very hard.

I think you are being very kind.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 May 2021 11.33am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 28 May 21 12.04pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

It is, but on all fairness the remoaner cry has all but vanished since the general election.

And the reason why the educated keep mucking it up is because outcomes are unpredictable in a fluid ever-changing world and the need to please everyone to justify their mandate and the impossibility of achieving that. That is, the tasks are very very hard.

But the outcome of pushing a second referendum manifesto promise was not 'fluid'. The data was there. In plain sight. With huge amounts of electoral evidence to back it up.

And yet Labour still end up with their manifesto pledge, pushed by supposedly 'educated' people. Electoral suicide. They ended up getting slaughtered with only the Brexit Party saving them from even worse.

You can argue about IQ's all you want but the reality is that if you though a second referendum was an idea that was going to go down well in a general election then you are as thick as s***. Far dumber than any of the most ignorant Brexiteers you chose to look down your noses at.

Beyond belief really and I don't believe those people at the top of the People Vote campaign, and their allies within the PLP, ever truly believed it would happen. All I see is a very machiavellian step to make Corbyn, and the wider Left, lose their grip on the Labour Party.

The real brain-deads are those who bought the hype. Dumber than a box of frogs.

 


In 1967, when Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take human life, replied: "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed communists."

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 28 May 21 12.07pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Short termism is one issue. Thinking you can please everyone (New Labour especially) is another. In the modern day people want to hear what they prefer and don’t want the truth of issues, hence higher and higher debt and people thinking higher inflation will never ever happen again.

 


COYP

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View mezzer's Profile mezzer Flag Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 28 May 21 12.09pm Send a Private Message to mezzer Add mezzer as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

It is, but on all fairness the remoaner cry has all but vanished since the general election.

And the reason why the educated keep mucking it up is because outcomes are unpredictable in a fluid ever-changing world and the need to please everyone to justify their mandate and the impossibility of achieving that. That is, the tasks are very very hard.

This is very true. And an interesting thread that hasn't descended into insults yet!

I can't find the relevant charts at the moment but I read something that I agreed with that these things are cyclical. After the Student Uprising in Paris in 1968 France pivoted to the left, and is only now beginning to pivot back again as the growing support for Le Pen is indicating. At the same time the US and UK pivoted the other way but is now swinging back towards more Socialist thinking. Trump's term is a good example of a temporary reaction to this.

The comment about unpredictability is spot on though. I'm in the fund management world and it's astonishing to see how long it takes for thinking to change. The reason that I see is that all the economists/fund managers/policy makers etc are of a similar age and so all attended the same Universities, learned the same stuff from the same books and lecturers, all ended up living in the same places, marrying each other, having affairs with each other, eating in the same restaurants etc etc. And because of the type of people that they are they always think they're right, and find it extremely difficult to understand that what they learned doesn't necessarily apply any more. This is one of the reasons the Financial Crisis of 2008 came as such a shock, and particularly the extended low interest rate/low inflationary world since. Even today they are genuinely excited that inflation is coming back (it's not, of course).

Their scorn for MMT was a joy to behold, and they continue to predict that it will be a disaster. It may, but it's bailed us all out so far.

So the "educated" believe with a passion what they believe and rarely mix with those who can show them another view. These kind of people don't "understand" what the books have told them.

The ability to adapt will slap the "educated" around the face in years to come though as a study I saw suggested that of the top 10 professions to be at risk from automation, three of the top 5 were the accountancy, legal and fund management world. All of which believe that they are deserving of a certain level of income based on their education.

 


Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

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View mezzer's Profile mezzer Flag Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 28 May 21 12.12pm Send a Private Message to mezzer Add mezzer as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

But the outcome of pushing a second referendum manifesto promise was not 'fluid'. The data was there. In plain sight. With huge amounts of electoral evidence to back it up.

And yet Labour still end up with their manifesto pledge, pushed by supposedly 'educated' people. Electoral suicide. They ended up getting slaughtered with only the Brexit Party saving them from even worse.

You can argue about IQ's all you want but the reality is that if you though a second referendum was an idea that was going to go down well in a general election then you are as thick as s***. Far dumber than any of the most ignorant Brexiteers you chose to look down your noses at.

Beyond belief really and I don't believe those people at the top of the People Vote campaign, and their allies within the PLP, ever truly believed it would happen. All I see is a very machiavellian step to make Corbyn, and the wider Left, lose their grip on the Labour Party.

The real brain-deads are those who bought the hype. Dumber than a box of frogs.

I think they absolutely believed it would happen because they never truly encountered anyone who thought differently to them. Or if they did, those who thought differently "didn't understand".

 


Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

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View jeeagles's Profile jeeagles Flag 28 May 21 12.20pm Send a Private Message to jeeagles Add jeeagles as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

But that is not leftist politics Hrolf. In fact, it could equally be argued to be on the other side. After all, what is more right wing free market policy than allowing the unfettered movement of labour to flow where the work is?

Exactly.

Free movement of people allows wealthier people to hire cheap builders, gardeners, and cleaners, and pushes down labour costs for shops and bars. It goes against the tradition left wing thinking.

Freedom of movement is a economically a right wing policy dressed up as liberalism.

The original data is 11 years old. There may not have been a shift in voting habits, more of a shift in education. Greater numbers of people from traditional labour voting backgrounds now have degrees.

 

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 28 May 21 12.23pm Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Short termism is one issue. Thinking you can please everyone (New Labour especially) is another. In the modern day people want to hear what they prefer and don’t want the truth of issues, hence higher and higher debt and people thinking higher inflation will never ever happen again.

That's why the Liberal Democrats are dead

 

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