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Palace Old Geezer Midhurst 12 Jul 21 12.45pm
Originally posted by orpingtoneagle We can moan about tactics but the managers tactics are the thing that got us to the final. We can moan about the penalties - and I am not a fan of the stutter and stop run up, but those lads stepped up to take them. We had a fantastic tournament overall and bodes well for the future. There was a lot of dignity in Southgates presser this morning. More than shown by our fans at the matches and out and about, who lack the basic respect of another nations anthem, who storm the Stadium, who stick lit flares up there a**e and who Racially abuse their own team. With fans like that we don't deserve to win anything. Yes on all points. Well said. Those yobs are not 'fans' or supporters of a football match. They made the occasion an excuse to get drunk and create mayhem. Must have been frightening for anyone accidentally caught up in it. Their behaviour was/is an embarrassment for our country as a whole and it brings shame on all true football supporters. Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.
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Palace Old Geezer

Midhurst 12 Jul 21 12.45pm

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Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

We can moan about tactics but the managers tactics are the thing that got us to the final. We can moan about the penalties - and I am not a fan of the stutter and stop run up, but those lads stepped up to take them.

We had a fantastic tournament overall and bodes well for the future.

There was a lot of dignity in Southgates presser this morning. More than shown by our fans at the matches and out and about, who lack the basic respect of another nations anthem, who storm the Stadium, who stick lit flares up there a**e and who Racially abuse their own team.

With fans like that we don't deserve to win anything.

Yes on all points. Well said.

Those yobs are not 'fans' or supporters of a football match. They made the occasion an excuse to get drunk and create mayhem. Must have been frightening for anyone accidentally caught up in it.

Their behaviour was/is an embarrassment for our country as a whole and it brings shame on all true football supporters.

Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

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Hannes Vienna 12 Jul 21 12.47pm
Am I wrong or didn't Rashford hit the left-side post from a pen when we played ManU two years ago? (ManU-Palace 1:2, 08/2019)? Was my last (even more) away-game I visited ..... Originally posted by Phil’s Barber It was the Rashford penalty miss, when we were ahead, that was the pivotal miss and game changer. Put that one in and the pressure on Italy is HUGE. The miss shifts the momentum back in favour of the Azzurri and completely changes the mindset and situation for Sancho, taking penalty number 4. The Rashford miss was the biggie
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Hannes

Vienna 12 Jul 21 12.47pm

Am I wrong or didn't Rashford hit the left-side post from a pen when we played ManU two years ago? (ManU-Palace 1:2, 08/2019)? Was my last (even more) away-game I visited .....

Originally posted by Phil’s Barber

It was the Rashford penalty miss, when we were ahead, that was the pivotal miss and game changer. Put that one in and the pressure on Italy is HUGE.
The miss shifts the momentum back in favour of the Azzurri and completely changes the mindset and situation for Sancho, taking penalty number 4.
The Rashford miss was the biggie

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BlueJay UK 12 Jul 21 1.03pm
Originally posted by Willo Apropos Saka, I suppose he can console himself with the fact that 2 of his team-mates also missed penalties and they have an impressive penalty taking record. Prior to last night,Rashford had scored 15 and missed 2, Sancho had scored 10 and missed 1. Saka has never taken a penalty for Arsenal to the best of my knowledge.He has scored 2 in a Youth Cup match and in an U18 International friendly and missed 1, in a penalty shoot out in another U18 International friendly. Edited by Willo (12 Jul 2021 8.50am) Good to have the numbers. I feel for the lad, for this all to fall on his shoulders. Character building though no doubt. Penalties are just such a crapshoot and so marginal. If it had gone the other way then few would be asking any questions. Our mistake was not leaving it all on the pitch prior to the nightmare pens scenario and getting the win (or going down fighting). Fortune favours the brave.
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BlueJay

UK 12 Jul 21 1.03pm

Originally posted by Willo

Apropos Saka, I suppose he can console himself with the fact that 2 of his team-mates also missed penalties and they have an impressive penalty taking record.

Prior to last night,Rashford had scored 15 and missed 2, Sancho had scored 10 and missed 1.
Saka has never taken a penalty for Arsenal to the best of my knowledge.He has scored 2 in a Youth Cup match and in an U18 International friendly and missed 1, in a penalty shoot out in another U18 International friendly.

Edited by Willo (12 Jul 2021 8.50am)

Good to have the numbers. I feel for the lad, for this all to fall on his shoulders. Character building though no doubt. Penalties are just such a crapshoot and so marginal. If it had gone the other way then few would be asking any questions. Our mistake was not leaving it all on the pitch prior to the nightmare pens scenario and getting the win (or going down fighting). Fortune favours the brave.

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Frickin Saweet South Cronx 12 Jul 21 3.14pm
Originally posted by BlueJay Good to have the numbers. I feel for the lad, for this all to fall on his shoulders. Character building though no doubt. Penalties are just such a crapshoot and so marginal. If it had gone the other way then few would be asking any questions. Our mistake was not leaving it all on the pitch prior to the nightmare pens scenario and getting the win (or going down fighting). Fortune favours the brave. Yep. I think part of Southgate's philosophy is that any situation can be managed. While I agree that in-game situations can be prepared for, players are people not robots and other variables such as emotion, human nature, momentum, (for us and the opposition) mean that things don't go to plan based on data, numbers statistics etc. As he matures as a manager I hope he starts to use his instinct and gut feeling when games start to change. This could have been capitalising on the 1-0 lead, or pre-empting Italy's command of the game. As has been spoken about a lot, he reacts to situations rather than being proactive to take charge of a game. Hopefully this will come. If it doesn't then I think it's 'thanks Gareth but your time is up', after the next world cup.
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Frickin Saweet

South Cronx 12 Jul 21 3.14pm

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Originally posted by BlueJay

Yep. I think part of Southgate's philosophy is that any situation can be managed. While I agree that in-game situations can be prepared for, players are people not robots and other variables such as emotion, human nature, momentum, (for us and the opposition) mean that things don't go to plan based on data, numbers statistics etc. As he matures as a manager I hope he starts to use his instinct and gut feeling when games start to change. This could have been capitalising on the 1-0 lead, or pre-empting Italy's command of the game. As has been spoken about a lot, he reacts to situations rather than being proactive to take charge of a game. Hopefully this will come. If it doesn't then I think it's 'thanks Gareth but your time is up', after the next world cup.

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BlueJay UK 12 Jul 21 3.40pm
Originally posted by Frickin Saweet Yep. I think part of Southgate's philosophy is that any situation can be managed. While I agree that in-game situations can be prepared for, players are people not robots and other variables such as emotion, human nature, momentum, (for us and the opposition) mean that things don't go to plan based on data, numbers statistics etc. As he matures as a manager I hope he starts to use his instinct and gut feeling when games start to change. This could have been capitalising on the 1-0 lead, or pre-empting Italy's command of the game. As has been spoken about a lot, he reacts to situations rather than being proactive to take charge of a game. Hopefully this will come. If it doesn't then I think it's 'thanks Gareth but your time is up', after the next world cup. I do have a fair bit of time for Southgate, but can certainly admit that the final could've gone a different way. It was hard to fault the first 30 minutes but we inevitably sat back, and it just seemed like a matter of time before Italy capitalised on that. Then before long we'd resigned ourselves to penalties. I honestly think if we'd have just kept pressuring them they might have buckled, because we were playing some good football early on. Of course, it has to be factored in that we were against an Italian side that has demonstrated that they're extremely hard to beat, and so they will often have answers to our questions, and make their opposition look like they're struggling. There's plenty of positives - and clearly some negatives - for Southgate to take into the World Cup, so a good or bad showing there will, as you say, likely dictate his future.
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BlueJay

UK 12 Jul 21 3.40pm

Originally posted by Frickin Saweet

I do have a fair bit of time for Southgate, but can certainly admit that the final could've gone a different way. It was hard to fault the first 30 minutes but we inevitably sat back, and it just seemed like a matter of time before Italy capitalised on that. Then before long we'd resigned ourselves to penalties. I honestly think if we'd have just kept pressuring them they might have buckled, because we were playing some good football early on.

Of course, it has to be factored in that we were against an Italian side that has demonstrated that they're extremely hard to beat, and so they will often have answers to our questions, and make their opposition look like they're struggling. There's plenty of positives - and clearly some negatives - for Southgate to take into the World Cup, so a good or bad showing there will, as you say, likely dictate his future.

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Pierre Purley 12 Jul 21 6.02pm
I have a slight problem in the fact that although Southgate has undoubtedly shown great management and leadership of the squad throughout the whole tournament. You just cannot actually man manage your way through a penalty shootout! You can however manage better the outcome of either the the last quarter of the game or all of extra time. By making a decision to attack Italy with fresh legs. Nothing to be gained by being hemmed in your own half in defensive lines smashing the ball upfield when you do manage to get possession! That's just like watching Palace sometimes! Southgate needed to add more than just Saka. About 70 minutes in Rashford & Grealish early enough supported by possibly Sancho as well. Mount wasn't featuring much during the second half, Sterling was fading fast and although always a potential threat, but if he wasn't going to used as a first 5 penalty taker why leave him on until the end? We have witnessed this in the past at Palace with Roy and his substitutions or lack of them!
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Pierre

Purley 12 Jul 21 6.02pm

I have a slight problem in the fact that although Southgate has undoubtedly shown great management and leadership of the squad throughout the whole tournament.

You just cannot actually man manage your way through a penalty shootout!

You can however manage better the outcome of either the the last quarter of the game or all of extra time.

By making a decision to attack Italy with fresh legs. Nothing to be gained by being hemmed in your own half in defensive lines smashing the ball upfield when you do manage to get possession!
That's just like watching Palace sometimes!
Southgate needed to add more than just Saka. About 70 minutes in Rashford & Grealish early enough supported by possibly Sancho as well.
Mount wasn't featuring much during the second half, Sterling was fading fast and although always a potential threat, but if he wasn't going to used as a first 5 penalty taker why leave him on until the end?

We have witnessed this in the past at Palace with Roy and his substitutions or lack of them!

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 12 Jul 21 6.42pm
Originally posted by Pierre I have a slight problem in the fact that although Southgate has undoubtedly shown great management and leadership of the squad throughout the whole tournament. You just cannot actually man manage your way through a penalty shootout! You can however manage better the outcome of either the the last quarter of the game or all of extra time. By making a decision to attack Italy with fresh legs. Nothing to be gained by being hemmed in your own half in defensive lines smashing the ball upfield when you do manage to get possession! That's just like watching Palace sometimes! Southgate needed to add more than just Saka. About 70 minutes in Rashford & Grealish early enough supported by possibly Sancho as well. Mount wasn't featuring much during the second half, Sterling was fading fast and although always a potential threat, but if he wasn't going to used as a first 5 penalty taker why leave him on until the end? We have witnessed this in the past at Palace with Roy and his substitutions or lack of them! Spot on, we needed fresh legs a long time before the 120th minute "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 12 Jul 21 6.42pm

Originally posted by Pierre

I have a slight problem in the fact that although Southgate has undoubtedly shown great management and leadership of the squad throughout the whole tournament.

You just cannot actually man manage your way through a penalty shootout!

You can however manage better the outcome of either the the last quarter of the game or all of extra time.

We have witnessed this in the past at Palace with Roy and his substitutions or lack of them!

Spot on, we needed fresh legs a long time before the 120th minute

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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Frickin Saweet South Cronx 12 Jul 21 7.20pm
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle Spot on, we needed fresh legs a long time before the 120th minute yep. Southgate needs to re-evaluate Sterling and Kane's seeming immunity to being substituted, as there's only so much you can impact a game when you only have one interchangeable attacking position. Yes they are quality and our talismen however it's a squad game, we have fantastic options on the bench, and you saw what a brave set of substitutions looks like from Mancini. Southgate HAS to learn from that. You'll also likely get more out of Sterling and Kane when they're not flogged to death over the course of a tournament.
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Frickin Saweet

South Cronx 12 Jul 21 7.20pm

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

Spot on, we needed fresh legs a long time before the 120th minute

yep. Southgate needs to re-evaluate Sterling and Kane's seeming immunity to being substituted, as there's only so much you can impact a game when you only have one interchangeable attacking position. Yes they are quality and our talismen however it's a squad game, we have fantastic options on the bench, and you saw what a brave set of substitutions looks like from Mancini. Southgate HAS to learn from that. You'll also likely get more out of Sterling and Kane when they're not flogged to death over the course of a tournament.

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BlueJay UK 12 Jul 21 8.04pm
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle Spot on, we needed fresh legs a long time before the 120th minute That sums it up really. Far too early in, we were playing for penalties. Something we're pretty woeful at every time it matters. I said to my mates during the game that I'd rather lose in normal time while going full throttle than play for penalties. My heart can do without this kind of stress!
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BlueJay

UK 12 Jul 21 8.04pm

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

Spot on, we needed fresh legs a long time before the 120th minute

That sums it up really. Far too early in, we were playing for penalties. Something we're pretty woeful at every time it matters. I said to my mates during the game that I'd rather lose in normal time while going full throttle than play for penalties. My heart can do without this kind of stress!

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Sir James Hird Mount Martha 12 Jul 21 8.23pm
I love my country of birth and always will. I love my football team I always will. Today I am deeply embarrassed and ashamed at the scum posing as English football supporters Nothing justifies kicking a man when he is down. Yes on all points. Well said. Those yobs are not 'fans' or supporters of a football match. They made the occasion an excuse to get drunk and create mayhem. Must have been frightening for anyone accidentally caught up in it. Their behaviour was/is an embarrassment for our country as a whole and it brings shame on all true football supporters.
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Sir James Hird

Mount Martha 12 Jul 21 8.23pm

I love my country of birth and always will. I love my football team I always will.
Today I am deeply embarrassed and ashamed at the scum posing as English football supporters
Nothing justifies kicking a man when he is down.

Yes on all points. Well said.

Those yobs are not 'fans' or supporters of a football match. They made the occasion an excuse to get drunk and create mayhem. Must have been frightening for anyone accidentally caught up in it.

Their behaviour was/is an embarrassment for our country as a whole and it brings shame on all true football supporters.

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Palacesince64 Edinburgh 12 Jul 21 8.28pm
Originally posted by Frickin Saweet We don't deserve to win anything because a small proportion of fans are scumbags? Do me a favour. Show me a country or club who doesn't have a pocket of fans like that. It's easy to get carried away and think a few viral videos and disproportionate media reporting tell the whole story. The racist abuse on social media should rightly be called out but it's not right that the majority of good fans suffer because of them. Also worth noting that a lot of the abuse on social media came from outside of the UK - according to Southgate in the presser this morning. I’m sure it’s a minority of England fans who behave badly at matches but unfortunately it’s not a “small proportion” it’s a significant number. Booing other countries players and their anthems seems to be the norm at England matches and I didn’t see it at any of the other games. Putting it down to “ disproportionate media reporting” is avoiding an issue that is getting worse. After yesterday’s behaviour there’s no chance of England hosting the World Cup for the foreseeable future.
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Palacesince64

Edinburgh 12 Jul 21 8.28pm

Originally posted by Frickin Saweet

We don't deserve to win anything because a small proportion of fans are scumbags? Do me a favour. Show me a country or club who doesn't have a pocket of fans like that.

It's easy to get carried away and think a few viral videos and disproportionate media reporting tell the whole story.

The racist abuse on social media should rightly be called out but it's not right that the majority of good fans suffer because of them. Also worth noting that a lot of the abuse on social media came from outside of the UK - according to Southgate in the presser this morning.

I’m sure it’s a minority of England fans who behave badly at matches but unfortunately it’s not a “small proportion” it’s a significant number. Booing other countries players and their anthems seems to be the norm at England matches and I didn’t see it at any of the other games. Putting it down to “ disproportionate media reporting” is avoiding an issue that is getting worse. After yesterday’s behaviour there’s no chance of England hosting the World Cup for the foreseeable future.

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sickboy Deal or Croydon 12 Jul 21 9.06pm
Why would anyone consider giving Southgate the next world cup. He has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory twice now in exactly the same way. Negative tactics and no back up plan. As for the mismanagement of the penalty shootout. 18 year old taking the last penalty. Italy have a proper coach. We don't. We effectively had a one goal head start and he couldn't capitalise on it. Poor. What was it Einstein said about doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result each time. Insanity. Get in a manager now who knows what he's doing to take advantage of the talent at his disposal.
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sickboy

Deal or Croydon 12 Jul 21 9.06pm

Why would anyone consider giving Southgate the next world cup.
He has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory twice now in exactly the same way.
Negative tactics and no back up plan.
As for the mismanagement of the penalty shootout.
18 year old taking the last penalty.
Italy have a proper coach. We don't.
We effectively had a one goal head start and he couldn't capitalise on it.
Poor.
What was it Einstein said about doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result each time.
Insanity.
Get in a manager now who knows what he's doing to take advantage of the talent at his disposal.

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