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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 21 Sep 21 2.51pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by rikz

There's a massive difference between racism and systemic racism, I'm sure they've all been called names, along with overweight kids, ginger kids etc in this country it doesn't matter what colour or religion you are, if you work hard enough you can achieve whatever you want.

Sounds like Miss World style idealism.

I would definitely say that in terms of racism we've come a long way are far more reasoned and fair than many countries. With that said, it's easy to decide on someone else behalf that there is little holding them back. It goes without saying that being non white in a largely white society is an additional challenge to face which comes bundled with numerous junk preconceptions, rather than it being some kind of gift that keeps on giving.

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 21 Sep 21 2.59pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

The problem with fobbing everything off as 'virtue signalling' is that eventually actual virtue gets thrown in there too since almost every act of decency becomes cynically viewed as some kind of 'put on' designed to influence or dictate to others. It's a perspective that inevitably damages and diminishes the moral compass of anyone making it their mantra.

Exactly this - it's the laziest defence imaginable

 

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View rikz's Profile rikz Flag Croydon 21 Sep 21 2.59pm Send a Private Message to rikz Add rikz as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Sounds like Miss World style idealism.

I would definitely say that in terms of racism we've come a long way are far more reasoned and fair than many countries. With that said, it's easy to decide on someone else behalf that there is little holding them back. It goes without saying that being non white in a largely white society is an additional challenge to face which comes bundled with numerous junk preconceptions, rather than it being some kind of gift that keeps on giving.

Next time you go in a hospital have a look around at the doctors, next time you walk past a dentist have a quick look inside. British Indians don't seem to have a problem.

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 21 Sep 21 3.04pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Yup but a one off is no good it needs to be weekly or a complete withdrawal. I never even noticed it this one how many other people missed it including the social media companies.

It's not just social media players need to go after UEFA and FIFA and their shameless pathetic small fines for whole stadiums abusing players.

Hit em where it hurts, threaten to withdraw from the champions league and international matches. I doubt they will because that means the players will suffer as well.

Well if you want to be taken seriously you have to have skin in the game.

So unless footballers actively seek to harm themselves commercially and professionally (by withdrawing from all major tournaments) they don't really believe it?

It puts the responsibility to solve a problem on people who are not responsible for it - there are lots of causes I support without doing so financially or harming my career - I do not follow that logic that this means I don't really care.

Most of these players have risked a backlash from a percentage of their own club and national team fans to support this cause, for no obvious personal gain.

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 21 Sep 21 3.04pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by rikz

There's a massive difference between racism and systemic racism, I'm sure they've all been called names, along with overweight kids, ginger kids etc in this country it doesn't matter what colour or religion you are, if you work hard enough you can achieve whatever you want.

Do people still believe this sh*te?

It's not even true if you're white.

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (21 Sep 2021 3.05pm)

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (21 Sep 2021 3.05pm)

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 21 Sep 21 3.18pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

So unless footballers actively seek to harm themselves commercially and professionally (by withdrawing from all major tournaments) they don't really believe it?

It puts the responsibility to solve a problem on people who are not responsible for it - there are lots of causes I support without doing so financially or harming my career - I do not follow that logic that this means I don't really care.

Most of these players have risked a backlash from a percentage of their own club and national team fans to support this cause, for no obvious personal gain.

Yup if you want change you have to be serious about it, that may not be fair but its life.

Dr King and his followers understood that, they went to gaol many times and risked beatings etc. I am not suggesting our players do that but they could start to put pressure on the football authorities and ramp it up if they don't get any action.

If they are not prepared to do that then why should the rest of us bother.

Edited by Badger11 (21 Sep 2021 3.19pm)

 


One more point

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View rikz's Profile rikz Flag Croydon 21 Sep 21 3.23pm Send a Private Message to rikz Add rikz as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Do people still believe this sh*te?

It's not even true if you're white.

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (21 Sep 2021 3.05pm)

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (21 Sep 2021 3.05pm)

How is it not true ?

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 21 Sep 21 3.25pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by rikz

Next time you go in a hospital have a look around at the doctors, next time you walk past a dentist have a quick look inside. British Indians don't seem to have a problem.

I'm not sure that being underpaid and working countless hours in a hospital is indication that you're appreciated. Let's take a look at CEOs and see who's path to the top is made easier and who does or doesn't have a problem getting there despite their abilities..

Edited by BlueJay (21 Sep 2021 3.26pm)

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 21 Sep 21 3.27pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

So unless footballers actively seek to harm themselves commercially and professionally (by withdrawing from all major tournaments) they don't really believe it?

It puts the responsibility to solve a problem on people who are not responsible for it - there are lots of causes I support without doing so financially or harming my career - I do not follow that logic that this means I don't really care.

Most of these players have risked a backlash from a percentage of their own club and national team fans to support this cause, for no obvious personal gain.

In general I'm not even in favour of pinning identity to online contributions, but it has to be said that facebook, twitter and instagram have a complete monopoly and just don't do enough to stop disruptive and laws breaking individuals from using their product. At least on FB identity is linked to the account. If Instagram and Twitter do the same then they can more easily boot off those only there to behave in such a manner.

 

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View rikz's Profile rikz Flag Croydon 21 Sep 21 3.28pm Send a Private Message to rikz Add rikz as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

I'm not sure that being underpaid and working countless hours in a hospital is indication that you're appreciated. Let's take a look at CEOs and see who's path to the top is made easier and who does or doesn't have a problem getting there despite their abilities..

I'm not saying it's impossible for anyone to make a good life for themself, just that there are of course different and additional challenges along the way and it trivialises the reality to pretend that there isn't.

Yeah let's take a look at CEOs, the majority will tend to be white straight males. 92% of the population is white, its just basic maths isn't it. Let's see who are CEOs in China, India, Thailand, Ghana, Turkey etc o yeah diversity only matters in western countries doesn't it.

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 21 Sep 21 3.31pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Yup if you want change you have to be serious about it, that may not be fair but its life.

Dr King and his followers understood that, they went to gaol many times and risked beatings etc. I am not suggesting our players do that but they could start to put pressure on the football authorities and ramp it up if they don't get any action.

If they are not prepared to do that then why should the rest of us bother.

Edited by Badger11 (21 Sep 2021 3.19pm)


I just fundamentally disagree.

If the bar is Dr King, I think you can basically dismiss every cause in modern history.

You can believe in a cause without being MLK.

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 21 Sep 21 3.36pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

In general I'm not even in favour of pinning identity to online contributions, but it has to be said that facebook, twitter and instagram have a complete monopoly and just don't do enough to stop disruptive and laws breaking individuals from using their product. At least on FB identity is linked to the account. If Instagram and Twitter do the same then they can more easily boot off those only there to behave in such a manner.

To be clear, I believe social media companies should and could do a lot more to help - my point was that footballers shouldn't have to harm their own pockets for people to believe they're serious.

 

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