CONservative government incompetence.
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 steeleye20 Online  Croydon 06 Nov 22 6.47pm |
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'Nothing you do works', Andrew Neill tonight. 12 years of the tories, let's boot them out. A winter of discontent on the cards, I think the public may take a very different view of things now. A councillor visiting a failing food bank 'It's like Dickens'. In 2022.
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| steeleye20 Online Croydon 06 Nov 22 6.58pm |
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First Braverman now Williamson. Really Sunak is a plonker, a 'clunker' as Truss was described. Hancock eating Kangaroo testicles represents an improvement as far as I am concerned.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Nov 22 7.17pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Nonsense, you're just looking for excuses for yourself. Who has complained about technology? Tech itself is not an issue, the argument is always in how it is used. As for social change, that relies precisely on the po litical....they are related. The right need to retake the universities and media from the social liberals and communists and that can't happen without political change. Culture is downstream from law. Of course, this is about as realistic as Palace winning the champ ions league at the moment. You describe my comment as nonsense and then write that load of supercilious waffle! It’s obviously not the technology itself that’s responsible! It’s the impact it has on the way the world functions which is. Only a fool believes that there is any way that can be controlled to suit your particular preferences. We can establish international forums to discuss the best ways forward, but they don’t control anything, and people like you invent conspiracy theories about them anyway. The world has shrunk because of widespread and cheap air travel and freight. Megaships transport goods like never before. We can communicate instantly with people on the other side of the world. Jobs that once had to be done locally can now be outsourced and the wealth shared. All due to technology. Medical science and technology enable longer and more active lives for an ever larger number of people. You think you can, or ought, to use the technology differently? Dream on! You cannot. Resisting is just a waste of time and effort. Much better to accept and enjoy. Social change does not rely on politics! The precise opposite is true. Politics is driven by society and society is built by our social connections. Culture is neither up, or downstream of law. Law exists alone. As does culture.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 06 Nov 22 7.35pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You describe my comment as nonsense and then write that load of supercilious waffle! It’s obviously not the technology itself that’s responsible! It’s the impact it has on the way the world functions which is. Only a fool believes that there is any way that can be controlled to suit your particular preferences. We can establish international forums to discuss the best ways forward, but they don’t control anything, and people like you invent conspiracy theories about them anyway. The world has shrunk because of widespread and cheap air travel and freight. Megaships transport goods like never before. We can communicate instantly with people on the other side of the world. Jobs that once had to be done locally can now be outsourced and the wealth shared. All due to technology. Medical science and technology enable longer and more active lives for an ever larger number of people. You think you can, or ought, to use the technology differently? Dream on! You cannot. Resisting is just a waste of time and effort. Much better to accept and enjoy. Social change does not rely on politics! The precise opposite is true. Politics is driven by society and society is built by our social connections. Culture is neither up, or downstream of law. Law exists alone. As does culture. The first four paragraphs are misdirection and don't apply to what I was saying. The last two paragraphs are just completely untrue and it can be proven. For example, the changes to homosexuality legalisation was not popular within society yet was pushed through and over time and via media campaigns became more and more accepted. At the time the laws on hate speech were drawn up there was no popular polled mandate for it. Even now it's contentious but support for protected speech is far more popular than it was. If politics were driven by society and not law then capital punishment would never have been outlawed. I could go on and on from the civil rights movement where the establishment supported them to the yellow jackets where the establishment didn't and have silenced and squashed them. The civil rights movement is actually another very relevant point in this. It was not popular at the time with the majority and the laws passed made the system....the people within those states didn't do it willingly. Culture is downstream from law.....most people comply and try to fit in, that's just reality.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Nov 22 7.44pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
As we have seen with funding and also commentary, there is a political decision that has been made to disproportionally focus upon the white dissident right wing rather than where the vast majority of attacks actually come from. How those actually within these services square this with their actual job I wouldn't know. I suspect some of them are ideologically filtered to agree with that and some will just keep their heads down and pay their mortgages....it's just not a world I could personally accept. “Wing” of what? “White dissident right” is a thoroughly unpleasant expression which brings back echoes of the past. A few years ago those who now use such words to describe themselves might have been members of the National Front, BNP or more recently Britain First. Of course none were identical, they kept falling out over just how nasty they wanted to be, but there is a common thread that links. 90 years ago Oswald Mosley would have liked the term. Sounds so much more acceptable than fascist. As our security services have said that the greatest threat to our democracy comes from the far right I think having the police monitoring them and publicly denouncing them is to be welcomed, not criticised.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Nov 22 8.11pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
The first four paragraphs are misdirection and don't apply to what I was saying. The last two paragraphs are just completely untrue and it can be proven. For example, the changes to homosexuality legalisation was not popular within society yet was pushed through and over time and via media campaigns became more and more accepted. At the time the laws on hate speech were drawn up there was no popular polled mandate for it. Even now it's contentious but support for protected speech is far more popular than it was. If politics were driven by society and not law then capital punishment would never have been outlawed. I could go on and on from the civil rights movement where the establishment supported them to the yellow jackets where the establishment didn't and have silenced and squashed them. The civil rights movement is actually another very relevant point in this. It was not popular at the time with the majority and the laws passed made the system....the people within those states didn't do it willingly. Culture is downstream from law.....most people comply and try to fit in, that's just reality. L
The first four paragraphs relate to what you routinely post on here, attacking “globalisation” as though it is a choice that can be managed. That politics has to deliver what the people need and not what they want is why we have a representative democracy. Society isn’t changed by the political. The changes are already there, the politicians are sensitive to them, and prepare for the future, rather than the past. Being hogtied by the attitudes of those with feet of clay serves no-one. Politics doesn’t change society at all, but it can recognise trends and respond to them and take the lead. Ultimately if the people don’t approve they can reverse. The civil rights movement may not have been popular in certain states but I suspect overall the majority in the USA saw the reasons for it and supported the changes. That could not have happened without a tide of social change developing. One that might not have reached every shore but was unstoppable, so needed to be recognised.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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croydon proud  Any european country i fancy! 06 Nov 22 8.23pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
'Nothing you do works', Andrew Neill tonight. 12 years of the tories, let's boot them out. A winter of discontent on the cards, I think the public may take a very different view of things now. A councillor visiting a failing food bank 'It's like Dickens'. In 2022. It"s unbelievable how far we have fallen in the past years, nurses having to use food banks is the norm- a food bank ran out of food on the news- and the people who used to volunteer are now using it themselves instead of volunteering- yet half the country are still asleep and making excuses for the CONServatives- but things are changing as povery catches up with them!
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Nov 22 8.31pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
To discover what social liberalism and mass immigration has done to Britain you only have to compare it to the past when Britain was far more socially conservative and before mass immigration. It's pretty true for all social metrics. They downgraded society andIsuse scare words against those who point it out. [Tweet Link]
Is there anything that you don’t blame on ”social liberalism and mass immigration”? Have you ever stopped to think what the reality of what the UK would be like today if we had elected Powell as PM? Which is what you seem to think would have changed everything. How long would he have lasted? Not very long, and in my opinion the resultant mess would have made things worse, not better. We will never actually know though. We are where we are and all the theories, ifs and buts, won’t change anything. So perhaps rather than moaning and dreaming it’s better to propose sensible, attainable goals for today’s situation. Getting far right ideas adopted isn’t going happen /, so come down from your high horse and get real.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Teddy Eagle  06 Nov 22 9.00pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
“Wing” of what? “White dissident right” is a thoroughly unpleasant expression which brings back echoes of the past. A few years ago those who now use such words to describe themselves might have been members of the National Front, BNP or more recently Britain First. Of course none were identical, they kept falling out over just how nasty they wanted to be, but there is a common thread that links. 90 years ago Oswald Mosley would have liked the term. Sounds so much more acceptable than fascist. As our security services have said that the greatest threat to our democracy comes from the far right I think having the police monitoring them and publicly denouncing them is to be welcomed, not criticised. Have the security services said that? Of course political extremism of any hue is unwelcome but the biggest threat? A bigger threat than overseas intervention in domestic affairs, cyber terrorism, election interference, the dissemination of false information, loss of faith in the political system, etc?
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Nov 22 10.31pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Have the security services said that? Of course political extremism of any hue is unwelcome but the biggest threat? A bigger threat than overseas intervention in domestic affairs, cyber terrorism, election interference, the dissemination of false information, loss of faith in the political system, etc? That came from memory. Having searched for evidence what I can find are statements that far right extremism is the fastest growing threat, and of the greatest concern. Islamic terrorism remains the biggest by % but is flat. Mind you, the info is out of date and the main site appears to be down, so perhaps there has been a later statement that I recall, but cannot yet access. During my trawl I came across these. The government commissioned report by Dr Lee being the most illuminating:-
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| Stirlingsays 06 Nov 22 11.19pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The first four paragraphs relate to what you routinely post on here, attacking “globalisation” as though it is a choice that can be managed. That politics has to deliver what the people need and not what they want is why we have a representative democracy. Society isn’t changed by the political. The changes are already there, the politicians are sensitive to them, and prepare for the future, rather than the past. Being hogtied by the attitudes of those with feet of clay serves no-one. Politics doesn’t change society at all, but it can recognise trends and respond to them and take the lead. Ultimately if the people don’t approve they can reverse. The civil rights movement may not have been popular in certain states but I suspect overall the majority in the USA saw the reasons for it and supported the changes. That could not have happened without a tide of social change developing. One that might not have reached every shore but was unstoppable, so needed to be recognised. The usual load of hogwash, just contentions that have nothing behind them. You even implicitly admit here that the elites made decisions that were unpopular and not bottom up in the areas they were introduced and implemented them. Which proves the top down argument of 'culture is downstream from law'. However, your contention that change is led by 'trends'....Well, WE, there are 'trends' floating around within society all the time. What matters is which ones are backed by money, law and media. I already cited the yellow jackets, I cited the civil rights movement. Both didn't have majority popular support with the only difference being that the ruling establishment supported one and not the other.....I could cite others like Antifa and BLM, but I don't want to spend my time constantly sucking eggs with reality denialists like your good self. Again, culture is downstream from law. I'm willing to hear of any proof you have for any polls showing support at the time for any of the situations I cite.....You won't have any. I suppose I should say you are entitled to your opinions and leave that at that. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Nov 2022 12.09am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 06 Nov 22 11.34pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Is there anything that you don’t blame on ”social liberalism and mass immigration”? Sure, life is multivaried...Some might say is there anything you haven't blamed on Trump? I'll just say that social liberalism and many of its belief systems are responsible for a hell of a lot of social and economic ills. As they have been in charge for decades I find the lack of recognition of that to be little more than 'cope'. Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Have you ever stopped to think what the reality of what the UK would be like today if we had elected Powell as PM? Which is what you seem to think would have changed everything. How long would he have lasted? Not very long, and in my opinion the resultant mess would have made things worse, not better. We will never actually know though. We are where we are and all the theories, ifs and buts, won’t change anything. We could say the same thing for had we elected Hilary Clinton instead of Trump. Clinton supported no fly zones over Syria. We could suggest that we would have been in this cold war years ago and that America wouldn't have had its good economic period under Trump....and I might add, no wars. However, all this 'we will never actually know though' hasn't and didn't stop you constantly attacking Trump did it...You were fine with a Hilary Clinton presidency just as you fully supported a Biden one....which has landed the west into a coming recession and a neo con war.....something that the Democrats have had in pretty much everyone of their presidencies this century. As for this idea that what a Powell as PM would mean is unknowable....well ok I get some of that but then again that's not really accurate is it. All that has to be done is look at European societies that didn't introduce mass immigration at the time...look at their crime rates at that time and then compare them to later. Then compare that to ours during the same decades....You will find the rather painfully obvious fact that social cohesion matters. It kind of blows your contention out of the water.....I think you instinctively know this anyway. Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
So perhaps rather than moaning and dreaming it’s better to propose sensible, attainable goals for today’s situation. Getting far right ideas adopted isn’t going happen /, so come down from your high horse and get real. People might have said the same to MJKj for his movement. I don't see my ideas as 'far right' myself but I don't care what scare words you wish to use. No, my little voice will stand for those who have had their land and heritage stolen by the likes of you. Your ideals and that of social liberalism in general have done a hell of a lot of damage and someone needs to point it out. I've been doing that...when I can be bothered for years....it's just me letting off steam....However, from your comments over the years, it's obvious that you think you're achieving something. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Nov 2022 12.54am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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