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November 27 2022 2.43pm

Free Speech

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 20 Oct 22 9.43am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I remember a while back people complaining that Russia didn't allow its citizens free speech.....something I agree is bad. However, while not as bad yet, when the counter point was made that this country has its own oppressive and threatening state action on free speech I found that this was largely ignored and diminished. However, I'm seeing Police actions that show that this really isn't the case...the Lawrence Fox incident was one.

And today, I saw this:


This country continues to get less tolerant towards non-mainstream approved opinions.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Oct 2022 1.48pm)

The policeman is wrong about the law, what about if you are Just Stop Oil and have this chap's views , do you get a warning and a cup of tea? This is thought police nonsense, either a crime has been committed or it hasn't. Offending someone is not a crime, yet

Edited by HKOwen (20 Oct 2022 11.39am)

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 22 9.56am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

The policeman is wrong about the law, what about if you are Just Stop Ol and have this cha's views , do you get a warning and a cup of tea? This is thought police nonsense, either a crime ahs been committed or it hasn't. Offending someone is not a crime, yet

Yes, the policeman was wrong if what was shown in the video was all he responded to.

Regrettably there is no way we can be certain of that. Too often videos get manipulated in ways which present a story which supports a particular narrative.

I am not suggesting this was. I am suggesting a degree of caution is necessary. "Non-mainstream" often equals unreliable.

 

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 20 Oct 22 1.15pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend


you want to say some homophobic language in the company of a policeman ? tell him you are quoting an ancient Holy text.

if he arrests you, he could find himself in a World of sh1.t

 


7 points from Manchester last season

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 31 Oct 22 1.39pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

I've for a while now been against the seeming totalitarianism being showered upon us in the suppression of free speech and the coercive nature of dictating also what we 'must' say - perhaps even more sinister.

For me it is the ultimate hijacking of what seems like a reasonable, logical and fair notion (to crack down on the likes of hate speech, terror etc.) however is often taken to far and used to achieve political and ideological ends (the far lefts and rights).

The other side to it however is that we live in a society able to communicate to one another, and more importantly, the world en masse which paves the way for anybody and everybody to start promulgating nonsense which by it's nature empowers the misaligned and disturbed but also captures weaker minds.

Here's the latest example for me - [Link]

The problem is in ensuring certain peoples are not allowed such a platform but then comes the old question of who makes the decisions - 'Who will Police the Police?'. The likes of social media platforms are obviously great for a variety of reasons however an objective and logical review is needed of this IMHO however I question whether such a thing exists or can exist?

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 31 Oct 22 1.53pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I've for a while now been against the seeming totalitarianism being showered upon us in the suppression of free speech and the coercive nature of dictating also what we 'must' say - perhaps even more sinister.

For me it is the ultimate hijacking of what seems like a reasonable, logical and fair notion (to crack down on the likes of hate speech, terror etc.) however is often taken to far and used to achieve political and ideological ends (the far lefts and rights).

The other side to it however is that we live in a society able to communicate to one another, and more importantly, the world en masse which paves the way for anybody and everybody to start promulgating nonsense which by it's nature empowers the misaligned and disturbed but also captures weaker minds.

Here's the latest example for me - [Link]

The problem is in ensuring certain peoples are not allowed such a platform but then comes the old question of who makes the decisions - 'Who will Police the Police?'. The likes of social media platforms are obviously great for a variety of reasons however an objective and logical review is needed of this IMHO however I question whether such a thing exists or can exist?

I think the "victim" made a valid point. This is not free speech issue when you are accusing someone of faking being disabled. If they are what they say they are then it is libel, this idiot like the one in the US (Sandy Hook) is making a living off other people's misery so they are entitled to sue and I hope they do.

 


One more point

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 31 Oct 22 2.00pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

I think the "victim" made a valid point. This is not free speech issue when you are accusing someone of faking being disabled. If they are what they say they are then it is libel, this idiot like the one in the US (Sandy Hook) is making a living off other people's misery so they are entitled to sue and I hope they do.

Oh no I totally agree Badger this is (at the very least) harassment and libel, plain and simple.

I think what I was more concentrated on is some loser like this getting hooked upon 'conspiracy theories', taking them to an extreme but also being both influenced by and influencing others, I am guessing, online.

My thoughts are more around 'anybody being able to say anything' to a virtually unlimited audience. I am inclined to believe half the societal issues we see these days are played out far more online than they are in reality.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 31 Oct 22 2.52pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

The policeman is wrong about the law, what about if you are Just Stop Oil and have this chap's views , do you get a warning and a cup of tea? This is thought police nonsense, either a crime has been committed or it hasn't. Offending someone is not a crime, yet

Edited by HKOwen (20 Oct 2022 11.39am)

Offending someone is only a crime when the Police consider it to be.
The law now considers what is said against 'protected characteristics'...it's completely nuts and the changes have been kept by our fake conservatives.

England stopped being England during Blair's time. He destroyed hundreds of years of our traditions in several ways and that was one of them.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 31 Oct 22 2.57pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Oh no I totally agree Badger this is (at the very least) harassment and libel, plain and simple.

I think what I was more concentrated on is some loser like this getting hooked upon 'conspiracy theories', taking them to an extreme but also being both influenced by and influencing others, I am guessing, online.

My thoughts are more around 'anybody being able to say anything' to a virtually unlimited audience. I am inclined to believe half the societal issues we see these days are played out far more online than they are in reality.

I agree with libel.

However, what you have been seeing is political and legal abuse with rewards.

As soon as you start agreeing with expansion to the censoring of speech over on what we had before Blair, you have opened to the door to the lunatics who will never stop with, 'what about this?', 'look at the damage done' and all of the rest of the subjective stuff that people have accepted as the price for freedom for centuries.

People's lives have already been damaged by activists abusing these laws for their own petty personal animosities. This site itself has been attacked by these people.

On a much wider scale comedy has been destroyed from the standards we had and it's down to this.....the knock on effects are everywhere in society.

The power has been given to the very worst people....and b0llocks to it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (31 Oct 2022 3.02pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 31 Oct 22 3.47pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I agree with libel.

However, what you have been seeing is political and legal abuse with rewards.

As soon as you start agreeing with expansion to the censoring of speech over on what we had before Blair, you have opened to the door to the lunatics who will never stop with, 'what about this?', 'look at the damage done' and all of the rest of the subjective stuff that people have accepted as the price for freedom for centuries.

People's lives have already been damaged by activists abusing these laws for their own petty personal animosities. This site itself has been attacked by these people.

On a much wider scale comedy has been destroyed from the standards we had and it's down to this.....the knock on effects are everywhere in society.

The power has been given to the very worst people....and b0llocks to it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (31 Oct 2022 3.02pm)

Yep, that's exactly my point Stirling.

We have seen a rise in ideologues supposedly on the 'left', whom utilise the likes of social media (see next para.) and if granted such powers it is not common sense but power prevailing and to favour those it rests with. Before we had seen it with 'media' (printing press and so on) but now it lies with the many who, as a collective, are downright stupid if not malignant.

That's my reasoning behind the argument that much of the nonsense we see today is promulgated by the weak and failures as they can safely and anonymously (both to a degree) utilise platforms to spread their own ideologies which are based on nothing more than a desire to change the world, in which they have failed, to something else in which they might stand a chance. This is of course to the detriment of the many.

It was first and foremost but even now most predominantly utilised by the 'far left' but those on the other end of the spectrum will not be far behind in following the same methodology. Look at the fear generated over Elon Musk's takeover of Twitter, the left are sincerely fearing a level playing field or sharing that which they have weaponised.

Edited by Nicholas91 (31 Oct 2022 3.50pm)

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 31 Oct 22 5.12pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Yep, that's exactly my point Stirling.

We have seen a rise in ideologues supposedly on the 'left', whom utilise the likes of social media (see next para.) and if granted such powers it is not common sense but power prevailing and to favour those it rests with. Before we had seen it with 'media' (printing press and so on) but now it lies with the many who, as a collective, are downright stupid if not malignant.

That's my reasoning behind the argument that much of the nonsense we see today is promulgated by the weak and failures as they can safely and anonymously (both to a degree) utilise platforms to spread their own ideologies which are based on nothing more than a desire to change the world, in which they have failed, to something else in which they might stand a chance. This is of course to the detriment of the many.

It was first and foremost but even now most predominantly utilised by the 'far left' but those on the other end of the spectrum will not be far behind in following the same methodology. Look at the fear generated over Elon Musk's takeover of Twitter, the left are sincerely fearing a level playing field or sharing that which they have weaponised.

Edited by Nicholas91 (31 Oct 2022 3.50pm)

Yep, it all comes down to power and they will invent some of the most ridiculous waffle to justify sharing any.

I suppose we will see if the Musk effect leads to any freeing up in the public discourse because all the worst people are after him.

They turned someone who literally is a libertarian left of centre into some hate figure.....insane.

Today we venerate the mentality ill and give them the keys to power.

Edited by Stirlingsays (31 Oct 2022 5.13pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 31 Oct 22 5.13pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Yep, that's exactly my point Stirling.

We have seen a rise in ideologues supposedly on the 'left', whom utilise the likes of social media (see next para.) and if granted such powers it is not common sense but power prevailing and to favour those it rests with. Before we had seen it with 'media' (printing press and so on) but now it lies with the many who, as a collective, are downright stupid if not malignant.

That's my reasoning behind the argument that much of the nonsense we see today is promulgated by the weak and failures as they can safely and anonymously (both to a degree) utilise platforms to spread their own ideologies which are based on nothing more than a desire to change the world, in which they have failed, to something else in which they might stand a chance. This is of course to the detriment of the many.

It was first and foremost but even now most predominantly utilised by the 'far left' but those on the other end of the spectrum will not be far behind in following the same methodology. Look at the fear generated over Elon Musk's takeover of Twitter, the left are sincerely fearing a level playing field or sharing that which they have weaponised.

Edited by Nicholas91 (31 Oct 2022 3.50pm)

It is worth noting here that the idea of total free speech across social media platforms is a fantasy, as long as those platforms a) require advertising to make money and b) require massive user bases to remain viable.

Some great quotes from a recent Verge article on the matter

Here are some examples: you can write as many polite letters to advertisers as you want, but you cannot reasonably expect to collect any meaningful advertising revenue if you do not promise those advertisers “brand safety.” That means you have to ban racism, sexism, transphobia, and all kinds of other speech that is totally legal in the United States but reveals people to be total assholes. So you can make all the promises about “free speech” you want, but the dull reality is that you still have to ban a bunch of legal speech if you want to make money.

'it turns out that most people do not want to participate in horrible unmoderated internet spaces full of s***ty racists and not-all-men fedora bullies. (This is why Twitter is so small compared to its peers!) What most people want from social media is to have nice experiences and to feel validated all the time. They want to live at Disney World. So if you want more people to join Twitter and actually post tweets, you have to make the experience much, much more pleasant. Which means: moderating more aggressively! Again, every “alternative” social network has learned this lesson the hard way. Like, over and over and over again.'

Parler - banning users

Truth social – heavy moderation (eg. posts containing 'abortion is healthcare' being shadow-banned)

More on Parler, an amusing exerpt from techdirt

'You may recall that last summer, we mocked how Parler was speed running the content moderation learning curve. It seems that every year a new social media service pops up, insisting that it believes in “free speech” and won’t “censor” anything. And then… reality hits. And it realizes that if you do no moderation at all, your website is a total and complete garbage dump full of spam, p***. harassment, abuse and trolling. And just as Parler learned it needed to do some moderation (and its then CEO even bragged about kicking off “leftist trolls”), every new platform learns the same damn thing eventually. Though, amusingly, it seems to happen faster and faster each time.'

So context is required when complaining about the lack of free speech on social media platforms. Moderation of content in order to provide a more usable product for audiences is just an inevitable reality. No point moaning about something that is impossible to create, in my view.

 


said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

Did you know? 95% of people are morons.

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 31 Oct 22 5.46pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

I see the public are ignoring the police request not to intervene with these idiot eco protestors.

Well Mr Plod if you don't want vigilante action then I suggest you try nicking these idiots instead of asking them if they want food and water. No doubt you will be bringing in out door heaters in case the little darlings catch cold.

The public are tired of being held to ransom by a bunch of middle class whites (when do you ever see a black eco protestor). Life is hard enough for working people then you are trying to get around London only to be held up whilst the police stand around and do nothing.

Quite frankly senior police officers should be sacked for dereliction of duty.

 


One more point

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