You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Free Speech
January 25 2022 1.58pm

Free Speech

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 2 of 11 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >

 

View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 28 Nov 21 5.47am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

You think the Progressive Left are just going to let us go off and do our own thing? No. They want to keep us close. They need to dominate, to impose, to essentially lord it over us. Hence why there is an increasingly zero-tolerance approach to anybody who not only refuses to take the knee but who even refused to comply with their new world view even in the past. They want to punish us for not only the sins of today but those of yesterday and even those of our ancestors.

The Progressives are parasites who live off those of with traditional values. At best, they might let us live in almost reservation-style communities but I suspect even that will be to much for them. They want to control what we eat, what we wear, how we speak and almost every other facet of our lives. They will allow us nothing. Even ludicrous s*** like Morris Dancing has to toe the line now and change centuries-old traditions.

I think the 'progressive left'....a term that I think we can say now includes a large chunk of the Tory leadership (though not financially progressive) comprises both the authoritarians and those who aren't so authoritarian.

I think you are right to identify those who seek to force compliance to what they consider 'social norms', when we consider it anything but with their historical understandings of the world being alien and disfigured to us.

You're also right to identify the hypocritical nature of many on the left who themselves live conservative lifestyles while supporting the promotion of lifestyles onto the young which directly harm their prospects of life success relative to them.

However I do think that the concept of free speech is valued by most of the political landscape.....even by many progressives and as I say I do think that it will take more generational change before the more hardline anti speech element have the numbers and by then even they will recognise the pointlessness.

I admit that this is only my take and I could be wrong. For example, the new 'online harms' bill could be a disastrous imposition onto Uk and western freedoms generally and be abused by just the type of people who sent the Police to my door the other week....we will see, I think this type of censorship is being attempted all over Europe.

I think it will result in a fight back once the damage extends into the mainstream.

However, even if they try to operate a soviet type treatment of free speech community building is already quite advanced by most multicultural groups especially non white ones and speech codes will have a much more difficult pathway to enforcement.

I think sensible people will recognise that fragmentation isn't only inevitable but the better option, with the opportunity of working with shared interests only.....similar to us with the EU currently....another progressive pipedream doomed to failure via fragmentation

We will see I suppose but we both believe that the fall of Rome is a repeating cycle and that we both represent just one part of that fragmentation. The only difference being that you feel that we need to push against that wall for it to fall and that the country can be taken back..... whereas I believe its foundations are ultimately so damaged that only time is needed for it to fall of its own volition but that demographics are too far gone for any 'taking back'....but the wall will fall.

I just don't know what is on the other side.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2021 6.26am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 28 Nov 21 6.49am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

This thread is quite bad for me. I recently re-read 1984 (having read it in the 1980's at school). With my additional life experiences, I was understanding things I had previously missed in the text before.
Whilst the technology was guesswork on Orwell's part (did you know his real name was Richard Blair ?), the political and human structure of societies was mercilessly dissected.

And to put it in Newspeak terms, Things may be notgood, but may well end up being bad and doubleplusbad. And all it requires is complicitness from the masses.

 


,.,.,..,

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 28 Nov 21 8.06am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

This thread is quite bad for me. I recently re-read 1984 (having read it in the 1980's at school). With my additional life experiences, I was understanding things I had previously missed in the text before.
Whilst the technology was guesswork on Orwell's part (did you know his real name was Richard Blair ?), the political and human structure of societies was mercilessly dissected.

And to put it in Newspeak terms, Things may be notgood, but may well end up being bad and doubleplusbad. And all it requires is complicitness from the masses.

On the face of it the ignorance of the lessons within 1984 is quite shocking. Then again, it's also a lesson in where power really sits, which is top down as money controls the mouthpieces and institutions.

Society always contains foot soldiers for just about any ideology that takes control of the power structures.....because that's what it's about, most people will bend to whatever the system requires of it because survival is the principle human aim.

Language can be used to justify just about anything as we regularly see on these forums, it's all about the manipulation and framing of arguments. It's easy for the naturally dishonest who have a couple of brain cells or an ideolog who actually believes in the fantasy.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2021 8.07am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 28 Nov 21 8.15am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

This thread is quite bad for me. I recently re-read 1984 (having read it in the 1980's at school). With my additional life experiences, I was understanding things I had previously missed in the text before.
Whilst the technology was guesswork on Orwell's part (did you know his real name was Richard Blair ?), the political and human structure of societies was mercilessly dissected.

And to put it in Newspeak terms, Things may be notgood, but may well end up being bad and doubleplusbad. And all it requires is complicitness from the masses.

Eric Arthur Blair

Edited by Badger11 (28 Nov 2021 8.16am)

 


One more point

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 28 Nov 21 8.22am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Yep Stirling, there are many threads entwined within 1984. A broken love story, disillusionment, re-writing of history, etc.

My own feelings on the book was that Big Brother didn't exist, but was a figurehead of an entirely human construct. something the elite controlled (wealth, power, goods), but the masses below had the power to change things. The masses were given 'just enough' to get by and to keep their basic need sated.
Assisting the system, obviously gave a better lifestyle.

I ended up feeling angry, that although things could have been better, human nature to improve/rebel, was supressed by lies and other factors.

 


,.,.,..,

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 28 Nov 21 8.24am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Eric Arthur Blair

Edited by Badger11 (28 Nov 2021 8.16am)

I stand corrected. Thanks

I thought the surname was mildly amusing when people spoke of an Orwellian society. They really meant a Blairite society, but who was to know,...


Edited by Forest Hillbilly (28 Nov 2021 8.25am)

 


,.,.,..,

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 28 Nov 21 8.25am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Yep Stirling, there are many threads entwined within 1984. A broken love story, disillusionment, re-writing of history, etc.

My own feelings on the book was that Big Brother didn't exist, but was a figurehead of an entirely human construct. something the elite controlled (wealth, power, goods), but the masses below had the power to change things. The masses were given 'just enough' to get by and to keep their basic need sated.
Assisting the system, obviously gave a better lifestyle.

I ended up feeling angry, that although things could have been better, human nature to improve/rebel, was supressed by lies and other factors.

Orwell wrote a biography of his time during the Spanish Civil war when he fought with the communists and how he became disillusioned with the lies they told. If you have read 1984 the genesis of that book is all there in Homage to Catalonia, well worth a read.

Edited by Badger11 (28 Nov 2021 8.26am)

 


One more point

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 28 Nov 21 8.26am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

I stand corrected. Thanks

I thought the surname was mildly amusing when people spoke of an Orwellian society. They really meant a Blairite society, but who was to know,...


Edited by Forest Hillbilly (28 Nov 2021 8.25am)

His adopted son was named Richard Blair.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 28 Nov 21 8.26am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

wrote ?

Damn,....missed the Edit

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (28 Nov 2021 8.27am)

 


,.,.,..,

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 28 Nov 21 8.31am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Yep Stirling, there are many threads entwined within 1984. A broken love story, disillusionment, re-writing of history, etc.

My own feelings on the book was that Big Brother didn't exist, but was a figurehead of an entirely human construct. something the elite controlled (wealth, power, goods), but the masses below had the power to change things. The masses were given 'just enough' to get by and to keep their basic need sated.
Assisting the system, obviously gave a better lifestyle.

I ended up feeling angry, that although things could have been better, human nature to improve/rebel, was supressed by lies and other factors.

Orwell was prophetic, even though he was commenting on regimes in his present. As human nature doesn't really change there is much commentary on it from the past that still applies today......I imagine Orwell would regard today much in the way you describe.

It's weird that he's mostly held up today by the right considering he was a socialist...albeit an honest one. Then again he lived in far more socially conservative times so being on the left back then isn't today....he certainly had fierce criticisms for authoritarianism and its lies, left or right and was pretty solid on it throughout his life.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 28 Nov 21 8.34am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

And protests have taken a turn for the worse.

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill 2021: protest powers
(source gov.uk)
"Protests are an important part of our vibrant and tolerant democracy. Under human rights law, we all have the right to gather and express our views. But these rights are not absolute rights. That fact raises important questions for the police and wider society to consider about how much disruption is tolerable, and how to deal with protesters who break the law. A fair balance should be struck between individual rights and the general interests of the community.

Having reviewed the evidence, our conclusion is that the police do not strike the right balance on every occasion. The balance may tip too readily in favour of protesters when as is often the case the police do not accurately assess the level of disruption caused, or likely to be caused, by a protest."

More suppression of free speech, aided by Covid Restrictions.

 


,.,.,..,

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 28 Nov 21 8.34am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Orwell wrote a biography of his time during the Spanish Civil war when he fought with the communists and how he became disillusioned with the lies they told. If you have read 1984 the genesis of that book is all there in Homage to Catalonia, well worth a read.

Edited by Badger11 (28 Nov 2021 8.26am)

Orwell fought in the P.O.U.M brigades, Trotskyist communists who were against Stalin (Trotsky disavowed them!)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

 

Page 2 of 11 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Free Speech