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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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View Ouzo Dan's Profile Ouzo Dan 24 May 22 8.26pm Send a Private Message to Ouzo Dan Add Ouzo Dan as a friend

Russia wins with conventional weapons in Ukraine or it wins with a Nuclear bomb, either way Russia wins.

Source - Russian state media.

 


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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 24 May 22 9.15pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

Russia wins with conventional weapons in Ukraine or it wins with a Nuclear bomb, either way Russia wins.

Source - Russian state media.

How precisely do they think they win with a nuclear bomb? Everybody loses. It's useful only as a threat.

I look forward to a neutral nation extracting wheat from Ukraine and Russia doing sod all but headlines about it..

I'm all for throwing them a bone they can call a victory if it brings about peace, but that's clearly about as good as it gets. In any case by their own logic if they manage to gain Donbas etc they'll be merrily on their way home anyway won't they, full of stories of how they had to level whole areas beyond recognition to rid them of those terrible Ukranian citizians..sorry, I mean hourdes of evil neo nazis..

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 24 May 22 10.01pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

They could have a referendum in the disputed regions. They could have local legislatures with power sharing in those regions. They could have a neutral party oversee a Ukrainian wide referendum. There are plenty of ways it could be solved. Russian speaking does not really define the nationality here either. It's not like Basque speaking or something. Russia had an empire and The Soviet Union. It's a bit like saying every English speaker can be English if they feel like it any time. I know some people do act like that - it isn't quite the reality, however.

There are lessons here for the global village idealists in Europe, not that any number of lessons would make any difference to them.

I think you would have to go back to the Minsk agreement to see that all of your solutions require good faith actors and that this just wasn't the case.

As for going forward I think the reality that the polarisation means that there can be no regional divided loyalties within these regions now.....It'll be highly dangerous to be loyal to Russia in western Ukraine and loyal to Ukraine in the Donbas and southern areas. Essentially there has been ethnic cleansing going on for years now.

I can't see those two mentalities just burying the hatchet and going back to how it was pre-2014 coup.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 May 2022 10.03pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 24 May 22 10.57pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

There are lessons here for the global village idealists in Europe, not that any number of lessons would make any difference to them.

I think you would have to go back to the Minsk agreement to see that all of your solutions require good faith actors and that this just wasn't the case.

As for going forward I think the reality that the polarisation means that there can be no regional divided loyalties within these regions now.....It'll be highly dangerous to be loyal to Russia in western Ukraine and loyal to Ukraine in the Donbas and southern areas. Essentially there has been ethnic cleansing going on for years now.

I can't see those two mentalities just burying the hatchet and going back to how it was pre-2014 coup.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 May 2022 10.03pm)

You're probably right, maybe a bit of a Balkan situation in those areas. Might get worse before it gets better.

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 24 May 22 11.12pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

You're probably right, maybe a bit of a Balkan situation in those areas. Might get worse before it gets better.

The Ukraine is going to be in debt for donkey's year whatever happens.

Western Ukraine has mainly been given loans and the parts Russia has taken, if they remain Russian, will obviously come under their economy.

It will be interesting to see how well those different parts of pre war Ukraine do economically. Will it be crap on both sides? Western Ukraine doing well or kind of like a reverse soviet Berlin where Russian Ukraine does well.

Guess we won't know till years after this craziness ends.....let's hope we are all here to find out.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View croydon proud's Profile croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 24 May 22 11.29pm Send a Private Message to croydon proud Add croydon proud as a friend

Ukraine could be the start of third world war says George Soros- is he right or speculating?

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 25 May 22 5.55am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Compare the western reporting....say by the BBC...which has basically acted as a Ukrainian mouthpiece....and the actual events that have happened on the ground.

I've lost count of the number of predictions that Russia was losing or was about to lose, that its economy was on the brink and couldn't continue. The number of 'experts' and talking heads essentially saying whatever the news network wanted to hear. If you were only taking in that media you weren't getting an accurate reflection of the truth.

A great play has been made about the Russian media basically being an arm of the state and not reflecting balanced opinion and I agree with that assessment. However, our own media has long fallen in objectivity and from what it once was.

The tendency to employ people who all think the same means that perspectives also become restricted and don't reflect reality and the world is seen as they want it to be rather than how it is. That is as true in Russia as it is here.

However, when it came to the battlefield, only alternative sources provide the opportunity to actually hear assessments that reflected reality.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 May 2022 5.58am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 25 May 22 5.59am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud

Ukraine could be the start of third world war says George Soros- is he right or speculating?

Well, if he said, 'could' then he's not wrong.

It's hardly rocket science.....though that could be how it ends us.

What you have seen are very bad miscalculations by poor leaderships....throwing money after bad and essentially many vulnerable people are going to suffer. And our media are partly responsible as most of them played possum, whether it was covid or Ukraine.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 May 2022 6.03am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Matov's Profile Matov Online Flag 25 May 22 6.11am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I've lost count of the number of predictions that Russia was losing or was about to lose, that its economy was on the brink and couldn't continue.


Edited by Stirlingsays (25 May 2022 5.58am)

It's the economic stuff that makes so little sense to me. The Rouble is at a 4 year high against the dollar. Russia does not need to import anything so 'sanctions' are utterly pointless. And the West is STILL buying its gas.

All that is happening by way of prolonging this war, which seems to be the deliberate Western policy, is to create in the next few months a massive food shortage whose impact is going to be felt the most in the poorer countries to the south. Which in turn is no doubt going to generate even large waves of illegal migrants heading towards Europe.

If you wanted to pursue a policy that f***ed Europe then this is it.


 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 25 May 22 6.23am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

It's the economic stuff that makes so little sense to me. The Rouble is at a 4 year high against the dollar. Russia does not need to import anything so 'sanctions' are utterly pointless. And the West is STILL buying its gas.

All that is happening by way of prolonging this war, which seems to be the deliberate Western policy, is to create in the next few months a massive food shortage whose impact is going to be felt the most in the poorer countries to the south. Which in turn is no doubt going to generate even large waves of illegal migrants heading towards Europe.

If you wanted to pursue a policy that f***ed Europe then this is it.

I agree, there has been something of the pied piper about it but I view it as incompetence rather than deliberate.

I think a similar 'group think' happened with covid. Only Orban has had the balls to say this approach actually worsens the situation....for which he's been called all the names under the sun. But I think he's going to be proven right.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View W12's Profile W12 25 May 22 6.38am Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

"all the sudden" Russia is winning? This would only surprise or shock you if you believed the Western media and dismissed alternative sources telling you Russia was making steady progress toward inevitable victory since this began.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View W12's Profile W12 25 May 22 8.26am Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

And you have the BBC making out that Russia is "closer to default"

Edited by W12 (25 May 2022 8.26am)

Screenshot 2022-05-25 at 08.25.21.png Attachment: Screenshot 2022-05-25 at 08.25.21.png (415.12Kb)

 

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