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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 28 May 22 7.58am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

Yes, I want him to 'win'. I believe Russia has been prodded and poked by the West for decades, at the behest of vested interests, none of whom care a single jot for me and my family. I believe Putin has been the most far-seeing leader of a modern country for the last 30 years and if you actually listened to what he had to say, suspect you might end up agreeing.

But this war has broken my heart. The destruction, the sight of Europeans killings each other, people from Christian cultures doing this to each other...horrible on every level.

We are lied to in the West. About so so many things and this war has been one of them. Does that mean Putin is some kind of angel? Of course not. But he acts as he does because he believes it is in the best interests of the Russian people. Unlike our leaders. Who act in the best interests of whatever corporate or foreign paymasters pulls their strings.

Rather than a winner I just want this to be over and for our leaders to be urging realistic negotiation to bring this brother war to an end, as seemed to be the case in March, instead of pumping the Ukraine full of weapons and creating a pointless and harmful worldwide cold war where everybody loses.

That point made I think you wrote an excellent post about our globalist elites, who are being observed more often now for their self serving outcomes and those manipulations are drip feeding into wider public consciousness as people feel the genuine negatives from their decisions.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 May 2022 8.00am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 28 May 22 8.07am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

Yes, I want him to 'win'. I believe Russia has been prodded and poked by the West for decades, at the behest of vested interests, none of whom care a single jot for me and my family. I believe Putin has been the most far-seeing leader of a modern country for the last 30 years and if you actually listened to what he had to say, suspect you might end up agreeing.

But this war has broken my heart. The destruction, the sight of Europeans killings each other, people from Christian cultures doing this to each other...horrible on every level.

We are lied to in the West. About so so many things and this war has been one of them. Does that mean Putin is some kind of angel? Of course not. But he acts as he does because he believes it is in the best interests of the Russian people. Unlike our leaders. Who act in the best interests of whatever corporate or foreign paymasters pulls their strings.

Do you live in England? If so, why don't you f-off to Russia as you hate the West so much, we don't need enemies like you here.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 28 May 22 8.42am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

Do you live in England? If so, why don't you f-off to Russia as you hate the West so much, we don't need enemies like you here.


I love the West. That is the point. I want to save it although I fear it is too late and suspect that people in the West are far to cowed now to do anything until it is too late.


And yes, my plans are to head east (helped in no small part by already having one foot in the door) if things carry on as they are. There is already a drip-drip effect going on with people heading out to central and eastern Europe. Tiny amounts at the moment but I suspect the numbers will grow and grow.

I get the anger from you, I really do. Because that is what the narrative we are constantly fed is. Russia bad, Putin mad. Been going on for the best part of 30 years now, ever since NATO saw its entire reason for being just fade away within 12 months when the wall came down.

Putin actually wanted Russia to become part of NATO. To really take its part in Europe's future. All rejected. Why? This is all I ask of you to look into. To try and take a slightly deeper look beyond what the same people who lied to you about weapons of mass destruction and Iraq are telling you about Russia and Putin. And they the same people. 100%.

You want me to justify Putin's invasion of Ukraine? Then no. I truly wished he had not done it for all kinds of reasons, not least because it pits me against many of my own people. But I can 100% sympathise with the 'why'. The West has been provoking him for decades, with Ukraine serving the role of their proxy by way of it. And now he has reacted.

Russia has autarky. It can feed and it can keep its own people warn. Its currency is the best performing one in the world this year ( [Link] ). Is Putin really that mad? Or bad?

All I ask is that people question the 'why' they are told by all the usual sources in the west.


Edited by Matov (28 May 2022 8.44am)

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 28 May 22 9.11am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

I love the West. That is the point. I want to save it although I fear it is too late and suspect that people in the West are far to cowed now to do anything until it is too late.


And yes, my plans are to head east (helped in no small part by already having one foot in the door) if things carry on as they are. There is already a drip-drip effect going on with people heading out to central and eastern Europe. Tiny amounts at the moment but I suspect the numbers will grow and grow.

I get the anger from you, I really do. Because that is what the narrative we are constantly fed is. Russia bad, Putin mad. Been going on for the best part of 30 years now, ever since NATO saw its entire reason for being just fade away within 12 months when the wall came down.

Putin actually wanted Russia to become part of NATO. To really take its part in Europe's future. All rejected. Why? This is all I ask of you to look into. To try and take a slightly deeper look beyond what the same people who lied to you about weapons of mass destruction and Iraq are telling you about Russia and Putin. And they the same people. 100%.

You want me to justify Putin's invasion of Ukraine? Then no. I truly wished he had not done it for all kinds of reasons, not least because it pits me against many of my own people. But I can 100% sympathise with the 'why'. The West has been provoking him for decades, with Ukraine serving the role of their proxy by way of it. And now he has reacted.

Russia has autarky. It can feed and it can keep its own people warn. Its currency is the best performing one in the world this year ( [Link] ). Is Putin really that mad? Or bad?

All I ask is that people question the 'why' they are told by all the usual sources in the west.

Edited by Matov (28 May 2022 8.44am)

I'm glad to hear that you 'get the anger from me'. Hurry up and head east. Meanwhile millions keep heading for the wicked, decadent West.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 28 May 22 9.15am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman


Hurry up and head east. Meanwhile millions keep heading for the wicked, decadent West.


A fair point. And when the wheat crisis really gets going, then millions and millions more will be heading for the 'wicked, decadent West'.

Enjoy the cultural enrichment.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 28 May 22 9.18am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

A fair point. And when the wheat crisis really gets going, then millions and millions more will be heading for the 'wicked, decadent West'.

Enjoy the cultural enrichment.

Obviously my point was that if the West is as bad as you paint it and Putin's Russia is so wonderful, why aren't people (apart from you) trying to get into Russia?

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 28 May 22 9.28am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

Obviously my point was that if the West is as bad as you paint it and Putin's Russia is so wonderful, why aren't people (apart from you) trying to get into Russia?

Because Russia is not 'shiny'. It does not offer benefits (or a perception/illusion of offering them that can be sold by traffickers).

It is a nation with a GDP comparable to that of Spain. Plus it is bloody difficult to get to for your average 'economic' migrant. All factors.

But if you are European, have traditional values, and want to live in a society in which your political leadership can happily tell you that only women can have wombs, then central and eastern Europe offers that. Yes, life will probably be harsher in some way but also simpler. Land and property are cheaper and whilst there are all kinds of complexities involved, the value systems are far stronger than we have here now. Plus almost anything you might want is available there. This idea that the 'West' enjoys some kind of vastly superior lifestyle is fading by the year.

As I said, numbers are tiny at the moment. Miniscule. But my prediction for the coming decades is that they will grow.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View BelfastEagle's Profile BelfastEagle Flag 28 May 22 9.34am Send a Private Message to BelfastEagle Add BelfastEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Matov


I love the West. That is the point. I want to save it although I fear it is too late and suspect that people in the West are far to cowed now to do anything until it is too late.


And yes, my plans are to head east (helped in no small part by already having one foot in the door) if things carry on as they are. There is already a drip-drip effect going on with people heading out to central and eastern Europe. Tiny amounts at the moment but I suspect the numbers will grow and grow.

I get the anger from you, I really do. Because that is what the narrative we are constantly fed is. Russia bad, Putin mad. Been going on for the best part of 30 years now, ever since NATO saw its entire reason for being just fade away within 12 months when the wall came down.

Putin actually wanted Russia to become part of NATO. To really take its part in Europe's future. All rejected. Why? This is all I ask of you to look into. To try and take a slightly deeper look beyond what the same people who lied to you about weapons of mass destruction and Iraq are telling you about Russia and Putin. And they the same people. 100%.

You want me to justify Putin's invasion of Ukraine? Then no. I truly wished he had not done it for all kinds of reasons, not least because it pits me against many of my own people. But I can 100% sympathise with the 'why'. The West has been provoking him for decades, with Ukraine serving the role of their proxy by way of it. And now he has reacted.

Russia has autarky. It can feed and it can keep its own people warn. Its currency is the best performing one in the world this year ( [Link] ). Is Putin really that mad? Or bad?

All I ask is that people question the 'why' they are told by all the usual sources in the west.


Edited by Matov (28 May 2022 8.44am)

I would ask why the free press is effectively banned in Russia ? If itís good as you claim what has Putin got to fear from it ? Unless of course the reality is rather different to what he portrays.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 28 May 22 9.37am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

Because Russia is not 'shiny'. It does not offer benefits (or a perception/illusion of offering them that can be sold by traffickers).

It is a nation with a GDP comparable to that of Spain. Plus it is bloody difficult to get to for your average 'economic' migrant. All factors.

But if you are European, have traditional values, and want to live in a society in which your political leadership can happily tell you that only women can have wombs, then central and eastern Europe offers that. Yes, life will probably be harsher in some way but also simpler. Land and property are cheaper and whilst there are all kinds of complexities involved, the value systems are far stronger than we have here now. Plus almost anything you might want is available there. This idea that the 'West' enjoys some kind of vastly superior lifestyle is fading by the year.

As I said, numbers are tiny at the moment. Miniscule. But my prediction for the coming decades is that they will grow.

Can you set up an opposition party without being poisoned?

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 28 May 22 9.51am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by BelfastEagle

I would ask why the free press is effectively banned in Russia ? If itís good as you claim what has Putin got to fear from it ? Unless of course the reality is rather different to what he portrays.

A free press is effectively banned in Ukraine. What does it have to fear? [Link]

We have a BBC who described Ukrainian soldiers surrendering as being 'evacuated'. And a West that collectively banned RT. What does the West have to fear?

And here in the West, we ban people from playing tennis or taking part in cultural events because of where they were born.

Are we any better?


 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 28 May 22 10.07am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

A free press is effectively banned in Ukraine. What does it have to fear? [Link]

We have a BBC who described Ukrainian soldiers surrendering as being 'evacuated'. And a West that collectively banned RT. What does the West have to fear?

And here in the West, we ban people from playing tennis or taking part in cultural events because of where they were born.

Are we any better?

The British government has not banned Russians from playing tennis, the All England Lawn Tennis & Croquet Club has.

What citizenship do you have? What nationality do you consider yourself?

Edited by georgenorman (28 May 2022 10.11am)

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 28 May 22 10.30am

Originally posted by Matov


I love the West. That is the point. I want to save it although I fear it is too late and suspect that people in the West are far to cowed now to do anything until it is too late.


And yes, my plans are to head east (helped in no small part by already having one foot in the door) if things carry on as they are. There is already a drip-drip effect going on with people heading out to central and eastern Europe. Tiny amounts at the moment but I suspect the numbers will grow and grow.


Edited by Matov (28 May 2022 8.44am)

You love it so much you're planning on jumping ship, to a culture where people there will recognise you to be alien from it while you convince yourself they're your 'brothers' and so it'll all be fine. Good luck with that. Sounds more like an entitled Benidorm Brit style mentality. At least you won't be moving for the sun I suppose.

Edited by BlueJay (28 May 2022 11.06am)

 

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