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October 4 2022 5.50am

Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 21 Sep 22 3.43pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by eaglesdare


More western propaganda

Really? You show me your sources and I’ll show you mine.

How is life under that wooden bridge comrade?

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Sep 22 4.00pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

No, granite doesn’t contain anything porous. Granite is massive (lacking any internal structures), hard, and tough.

This is more the reality of these interactions.

[Link]

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 21 Sep 22 5.09pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Unlike Russia, which encourages corruption to maintain control over powerful individuals, Ukraine is not amongst the most corrupt nations. It is 15 countries less corrupt than Russia but I shan’t be buying a timeshare there any time soon.

Most corrupt is South Sudan, least corrupt New Zealand, Finland and Denmark

Interestingly Estonia is at a similar ranking to Britain

Edited by Mapletree (21 Sep 2022 2.42pm)

Much has been said on here (I am not sure whether motivated by pro Russian perspective and / or anti western media) about how corrupt Ukraine was and why we favour one over the other. Good question.

Thus, does anyone stop to think that Poland was ruled by a nasty military dictatorship before the German tanks rolled in? Of course that did not excuse the horrors then inflicted on those people by the Germans from the west and then USSR from the east. But their depiction as a helpless, innocent nation is a story made for propaganda purposes where the dictatorship issue spoils the victim narrative.

Or that a Ugandan once told me that Milton Obote was much worse than his successor, the "Last King of Scotland"; and no worse than many other African leaders (don't get me started on South Africa); but Obote was pro west and Amin was pro East. OK, the latter caused the influx of Asian immigrants into the UK and was integral to the Entebbe terrorism issue; but he was still possibly better for the Ugandans than Obote.

There are undoubtedly a host of heroic countries and favoured regimes that have been despotic and fundamentally corrupt, but their activities have fallen under the radar as they were pro West.

And so to Ukraine. Probably no angel, but it was a burgeoning, embryonic democracy with all the cultural legacy of a nation once under the USSR boot; and living on the edge of a larger more powerful and threatening neighbour who used to wear that boot. What would you expect it to be but one coming from that end of the stick and seeking to become more like western Europe on the other end.

Then again, you are missing the point. Whether they were perfect or even far from it, their issues (which had no impact on Russian security) cannot excuse invasion and brutal annexation.

 

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Returner Flag 21 Sep 22 5.23pm

Originally posted by silvertop

Much has been said on here (I am not sure whether motivated by pro Russian perspective and / or anti western media) about how corrupt Ukraine was and why we favour one over the other. Good question.

Thus, does anyone stop to think that Poland was ruled by a nasty military dictatorship before the German tanks rolled in? Of course that did not excuse the horrors then inflicted on those people by the Germans from the west and then USSR from the east. But their depiction as a helpless, innocent nation is a story made for propaganda purposes where the dictatorship issue spoils the victim narrative.

Or that a Ugandan once told me that Milton Obote was much worse than his successor, the "Last King of Scotland"; and no worse than many other African leaders (don't get me started on South Africa); but Obote was pro west and Amin was pro East. OK, the latter caused the influx of Asian immigrants into the UK and was integral to the Entebbe terrorism issue; but he was still possibly better for the Ugandans than Obote.

There are undoubtedly a host of heroic countries and favoured regimes that have been despotic and fundamentally corrupt, but their activities have fallen under the radar as they were pro West.

And so to Ukraine. Probably no angel, but it was a burgeoning, embryonic democracy with all the cultural legacy of a nation once under the USSR boot; and living on the edge of a larger more powerful and threatening neighbour who used to wear that boot. What would you expect it to be but one coming from that end of the stick and seeking to become more like western Europe on the other end.

Then again, you are missing the point. Whether they were perfect or even far from it, their issues (which had no impact on Russian security) cannot excuse invasion and brutal annexation.

How so? The government was installed in 2012 by the US by Victoria Nuland who had ethnic beef with the Russians via her family. Since then they have done everything they can to terrorise and silence opposition and waged war on the ethnic Russians in the east. This was common knowledge before the war. It's just another Oligarchy/Kleptocry.

Edited by Returner (21 Sep 2022 5.25pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Sep 22 5.30pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

Much has been said on here (I am not sure whether motivated by pro Russian perspective and / or anti western media) about how corrupt Ukraine was and why we favour one over the other. Good question.

Thus, does anyone stop to think that Poland was ruled by a nasty military dictatorship before the German tanks rolled in? Of course that did not excuse the horrors then inflicted on those people by the Germans from the west and then USSR from the east. But their depiction as a helpless, innocent nation is a story made for propaganda purposes where the dictatorship issue spoils the victim narrative.

Or that a Ugandan once told me that Milton Obote was much worse than his successor, the "Last King of Scotland"; and no worse than many other African leaders (don't get me started on South Africa); but Obote was pro west and Amin was pro East. OK, the latter caused the influx of Asian immigrants into the UK and was integral to the Entebbe terrorism issue; but he was still possibly better for the Ugandans than Obote.

There are undoubtedly a host of heroic countries and favoured regimes that have been despotic and fundamentally corrupt, but their activities have fallen under the radar as they were pro West.

And so to Ukraine. Probably no angel, but it was a burgeoning, embryonic democracy with all the cultural legacy of a nation once under the USSR boot; and living on the edge of a larger more powerful and threatening neighbour who used to wear that boot. What would you expect it to be but one coming from that end of the stick and seeking to become more like western Europe on the other end.

Then again, you are missing the point. Whether they were perfect or even far from it, their issues (which had no impact on Russian security) cannot excuse invasion and brutal annexation.

As much as I regard the US as cousins I suspect its list of meddling and wars are also pretty extensive.

1947–1949: Intervening in the Greek civil war

1947–1970: Meddling in Italy's elections and supporting anti-communism activities

1945-1949: Intervening in China’s civil war and establishing Taiwan

1948: Supporting anti-government forces in Costa Rica's civil war

1949–1953: Supporting anti-communism activities in Albania

1949: Staging a coup in Syria (it was CIA’s first coup)

1950–1953: Korean War

1952: Intervening in the Egyptian Revolution of 1952

1953: Orchestrated a coup in Iran and overthrew the democratically elected leader

1954: Invaded Guatemala and installed a puppet

1956–1957: Plotting a coup in Syria

1957–1959: Supporting a coup in Indonesia

1958: Creating a crisis in Lebanon

1960–1961: Supporting a coup in the Congo

1960: Meddling in Laos’ reforms

1961: Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba

1961–1975: Supporting civil war and OPIUM TRADE in Laos (look up “Air America”)

1961–1964: Supporting anti-government activities in Brazil

1963: Supporting civil strife in Iraq

1963: Supporting riots in Ecuador

1963–1975: Vietnam War

1964: Intervening in Congo’s rebellion (and bombing)

1965–1966: Intervening in Dominica's civil war

1965–1967: Installing, arming and aiding fascist Indonesian military government’s massacre of communists (2-3 million killed)

1966: Engineering an insurgency in Ghana

1966–1969: Creating conflicts in the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ), which is a region on the Korean peninsula that demarcates North Korea from South Korea

1966–1967: Supporting an insurgency in Bolivia

1967: Intervening in the change of the Greek government

1967–1975: Intervening in Cambodia's civil war

1970: Meddling in Oman's domestic affairs

1970–1973: Aided a military coup in Chile (overthrew democratically elected and popular progressive leader, Salvador Allende)

1970–1973: Orchestrating a coup in Cambodia

1971: Supporting a coup in Bolivia

1972–1975: Assisting anti-government forces in Iraq

1976: Supporting a coup in Argentina

1976–1992: Intervening in Angola's domestic affairs

1977–1988: Supporting a coup in pakistan

1979–1993: Supporting anti-government forces in Cambodia

1979–1989: Arming, funding, training the Mujahedin in Afghanistan. This led to Al Qaeda and the largest network of Islamic terrorist groups in the world.

1979–1989: Used Saddam Hussein to wage a proxy war against Iraq. Funded and armed Saddam for ten years.

1980–1989: Financed anti-government Solidarity trade union in Poland

1980–1992: Meddling in El Salvador's civil war

1981: Attacking Libya in Gulf of Sidra

1981–1982: Engineering regime change in Chad

1982–1984: Participating in a multilateral intervention in Lebanon

1982–1989: Supporting anti-government forces in Nicaragua (the U.S. armed fascists, death squads, drug lords etc.)

1983: Invading Grenada

1986: Invading Gulf of Sidra, Libya

1986: Bombing Libya

1988: Shooting down an Iranian airliner

1988: Sending troops to Honduras

1989: Attacking Libya in Tobruk

1989: Intervening in the Philippines' domestic affairs

1989–1990: Invading Panama

1990–1991: Persian Gulf War, Part 1

1991: Intervening in Haiti's elections

1991–2003: Leading the enforcement action to establish a no-fly zone in Iraq

1992–1995: Intervening in Somalia's civil war for the first time

1992–1995: Intervening in the Bosnian War

1994–1995: Sending troops to Haiti

1996: Supporting a coup in Iraq

1997: Sending troops to Albania

1997: Sending troops to Sierra Leone

1998–1999: Waging the Kosovo War

1998: Launching cruise missile attacks on Sudan and Afghanistan

1998–1999: Sending troops to Kenya and Tanzania

2001–present: War on Afghanistan

2002: Sending troops to Côte d'Ivoire

2003: Orchestrating color revolution in Georgia and installing a pro-US government

2003–present: Iraq War, Part 2

2004–now: Inciting wars between pakistan and Afghanistan in their contiguous areas

2004: Orchestrating color revolution in Ukraine and installing a pro-US government

2006–2007: Supporting Fatah, a Palestinian political and military organization, in overthrowing the elected government of Hamas

2007–present: Intervening in Somalia's civil war for the second time

2009: Supporting a coup in Honduras

2011: Supporting anti-government forces in Libya

2011–present: Arming, funding, training jihadists, Al Qaeda, and “moderate rebels” in Syria. Occasionally bombing Syria. And occupying the oil-rich parts of Syria.

2011–2017: Carrying out military operations in Uganda

2014: Orchestrating a color revolution in Ukraine and overthrowing a democratically elected leader.

2014–present: Leading the intervention actions in Iraq

2015–now: Arming, directing Saudi Arabia's participation in Yemen's civil war

2017-2019: Attempting regime change in Venezuela

2012-2020: Funding, orchestrating riots in Hong Kong.

2019: Supporting a military coup in Bolivia

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 21 Sep 22 5.40pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

As much as I regard the US as cousins I suspect its list of meddling and wars are also pretty extensive.

1947–1949: Intervening in the Greek civil war

1947–1970: Meddling in Italy's elections and supporting anti-communism activities

1945-1949: Intervening in China’s civil war and establishing Taiwan

1948: Supporting anti-government forces in Costa Rica's civil war

1949–1953: Supporting anti-communism activities in Albania

1949: Staging a coup in Syria (it was CIA’s first coup)

1950–1953: Korean War

1952: Intervening in the Egyptian Revolution of 1952

1953: Orchestrated a coup in Iran and overthrew the democratically elected leader

1954: Invaded Guatemala and installed a puppet

1956–1957: Plotting a coup in Syria

1957–1959: Supporting a coup in Indonesia

1958: Creating a crisis in Lebanon

1960–1961: Supporting a coup in the Congo

1960: Meddling in Laos’ reforms

1961: Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba

1961–1975: Supporting civil war and OPIUM TRADE in Laos (look up “Air America”)

1961–1964: Supporting anti-government activities in Brazil

1963: Supporting civil strife in Iraq

1963: Supporting riots in Ecuador

1963–1975: Vietnam War

1964: Intervening in Congo’s rebellion (and bombing)

1965–1966: Intervening in Dominica's civil war

1965–1967: Installing, arming and aiding fascist Indonesian military government’s massacre of communists (2-3 million killed)

1966: Engineering an insurgency in Ghana

1966–1969: Creating conflicts in the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ), which is a region on the Korean peninsula that demarcates North Korea from South Korea

1966–1967: Supporting an insurgency in Bolivia

1967: Intervening in the change of the Greek government

1967–1975: Intervening in Cambodia's civil war

1970: Meddling in Oman's domestic affairs

1970–1973: Aided a military coup in Chile (overthrew democratically elected and popular progressive leader, Salvador Allende)

1970–1973: Orchestrating a coup in Cambodia

1971: Supporting a coup in Bolivia

1972–1975: Assisting anti-government forces in Iraq

1976: Supporting a coup in Argentina

1976–1992: Intervening in Angola's domestic affairs

1977–1988: Supporting a coup in pakistan

1979–1993: Supporting anti-government forces in Cambodia

1979–1989: Arming, funding, training the Mujahedin in Afghanistan. This led to Al Qaeda and the largest network of Islamic terrorist groups in the world.

1979–1989: Used Saddam Hussein to wage a proxy war against Iraq. Funded and armed Saddam for ten years.

1980–1989: Financed anti-government Solidarity trade union in Poland

1980–1992: Meddling in El Salvador's civil war

1981: Attacking Libya in Gulf of Sidra

1981–1982: Engineering regime change in Chad

1982–1984: Participating in a multilateral intervention in Lebanon

1982–1989: Supporting anti-government forces in Nicaragua (the U.S. armed fascists, death squads, drug lords etc.)

1983: Invading Grenada

1986: Invading Gulf of Sidra, Libya

1986: Bombing Libya

1988: Shooting down an Iranian airliner

1988: Sending troops to Honduras

1989: Attacking Libya in Tobruk

1989: Intervening in the Philippines' domestic affairs

1989–1990: Invading Panama

1990–1991: Persian Gulf War, Part 1

1991: Intervening in Haiti's elections

1991–2003: Leading the enforcement action to establish a no-fly zone in Iraq

1992–1995: Intervening in Somalia's civil war for the first time

1992–1995: Intervening in the Bosnian War

1994–1995: Sending troops to Haiti

1996: Supporting a coup in Iraq

1997: Sending troops to Albania

1997: Sending troops to Sierra Leone

1998–1999: Waging the Kosovo War

1998: Launching cruise missile attacks on Sudan and Afghanistan

1998–1999: Sending troops to Kenya and Tanzania

2001–present: War on Afghanistan

2002: Sending troops to Côte d'Ivoire

2003: Orchestrating color revolution in Georgia and installing a pro-US government

2003–present: Iraq War, Part 2

2004–now: Inciting wars between pakistan and Afghanistan in their contiguous areas

2004: Orchestrating color revolution in Ukraine and installing a pro-US government

2006–2007: Supporting Fatah, a Palestinian political and military organization, in overthrowing the elected government of Hamas

2007–present: Intervening in Somalia's civil war for the second time

2009: Supporting a coup in Honduras

2011: Supporting anti-government forces in Libya

2011–present: Arming, funding, training jihadists, Al Qaeda, and “moderate rebels” in Syria. Occasionally bombing Syria. And occupying the oil-rich parts of Syria.

2011–2017: Carrying out military operations in Uganda

2014: Orchestrating a color revolution in Ukraine and overthrowing a democratically elected leader.

2014–present: Leading the intervention actions in Iraq

2015–now: Arming, directing Saudi Arabia's participation in Yemen's civil war

2017-2019: Attempting regime change in Venezuela

2012-2020: Funding, orchestrating riots in Hong Kong.

2019: Supporting a military coup in Bolivia

That's all fine, no one really minds - as long as Trump's not President.

 


Patrick Vieira's
Red and Blue Army!

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Sep 22 5.42pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

That's all fine, no one really minds - as long as Trump's not President.

Yep, the land of the free...free to sniff kids president.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 21 Sep 22 5.47pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yep, the land of the free...free to sniff kids president.

The smell of a child's hair reminds him of when the rope at the New Amsterdam town well was made out of it.

 


Patrick Vieira's
Red and Blue Army!

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Sep 22 6.27pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

The smell of a child's hair reminds him of when the rope at the New Amsterdam town well was made out of it.

It's like being represented by a perverted ghoul.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Sep 22 7.28pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

I'm hearing that mobilization agendas have already been handed to 300 thousand today. Considering that most males serve military service this is way under five percent of the Russian male population. They should appear at the military enlistment offices tomorrow morning from 5:00 to 7: 00.

Ukraine still talking about increasing the numbers of women at the front line bill pass it first stage.

As Russia is picking its most experienced reservists first the thinking is that they will be at the front within two weeks....or maybe longer who knows. Russia is expecting the front lines to be hot before the Ukrainians go on the defensive.

The risk of nuclear war is now significantly higher and as Jordan Peterson says it would be considered it a major win if this was avoided as we are only escalating......no one wants to step down.

There is going to be a sea of more blood.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Sep 2022 7.39pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 21 Sep 22 7.43pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Completely subjective, like everything else you say.

I'm not interested in what you think or your inventions. You are a physical coward who wants to cheer on other people fighting for your causes, even when some of them are forced to.

Post at someone else.....you are a comment stalker.

For someone not interested in what I think you seem to be obsessed in reading what I have to say and addicted to answering. And you think I am a “stalker”! Very odd.

I don’t care a jot who is posting the comment. I just contradict that which I regard as false. That you get more answers than others ought to be instructive.

Just because I reject violence as a way to settle disputes doesn’t make me a physical coward. I have faced, and overcome, many physical problems with fortitude and good humour. Something I seriously doubt you could manage. I just follow the ethos of turning the other cheek, or even better, walking away, if threatened.

I don’t provide succour to bullies and refuse to be provoked. Try it. It’s much more effective in the longer run. That’s what we are doing to Putin. It happens here too, although maybe it’s too subtle for some to recognise when!

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (21 Sep 2022 7.48pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Sep 22 7.55pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Sorry I'm not a wimp.

I don't talk tough and then rely upon others to throw my punches.....using a lot of flowerly language to dress it up as something else.

I either throw my own punches or I don't get involved.

No man should ever advocate for action that he wouldn't be willing to take himself.

You seem more waffle than human.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Sep 2022 8.40pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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