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Saudi Arabia

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 15 Mar 22 10.34am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

81 executions in a day. Probably beheadings; and probably preceded by torture. Acts of barbarism from a barbaric state. We are now having to sleep with the Devil to replace Russian oil and try and level out prices at the pumps.

A moral dilemma?

Well at least that appears the argument from our media and politicians. Truthfully, hard to argue with, especially extraction of confessions through torture where there is never justification or, indeed, sense. However, does that really present the whole picture?

Anyone who reads my posts will not be surprised that I am against the death penalty (another thread for that one please). However, the death penalty still exists in many parts of the world, not least Saudi Arabia. But a great deal more are executed in Egypt, and the number is dwarfed by the death tally in Iran; and don't get me started on the far east especially North Korea and China where convicts are executed daily and in far greater number. The significance of Saudi Arabia is they conduct their executions sporadically, and at a single time, thus heightening the focus.

Also, it is so easy for us to sneer with our centuries-earned liberties, but this is the norm in Saudi Arabia. It wasn't that long ago when we were hanging child pick-pockets. It is their system. They are reforming slowly, but at their pace. They'll get there, just as we did. They just need to do it themselves.

And so to the crimes. The media angle is mere association with terrorism - a crime given very wide application in their law - and something nebulously termed "deviant beliefs" which I immediately concluded was some religious crime of the "meal good enough for Jehovah" variety.

It may be. And the crimes may be ones that our more "enlightened" nation considers relatively minor, certainly not such as to justify torture and violent death. However, there is one difficult fact for Saudis . Despite "Dubya's" attempt to shift blame to the Iraqis to justify an attack on that sovereign state, those who destroyed the twin towers were Saudis to a man. Al Qaeda is substantially of Saudi origin and finance. 2500 Saudi nationals gleefully enlisted in IS and were no doubt complicit in atrocities committed. Thus, while the West refused to blame the Saudis openly, I bet there has been incessant pressure by us on them to get their house in order. Dutifully they have done just that with what they believe is the most advanced and intense de-radicalization program in the world.

Outside the successes of that program, there must have been failures; and those who continued to engage in outright acts of terror. Perhaps those were the "deviant beliefs"?

Thus, while I naturally abhor what they have done, I can't help feeling that they are holding up their hands and saying, you asked us to get out house in order, that is precisely what we are doing.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 15 Mar 22 1.11pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

81 executions in a day. Probably beheadings; and probably preceded by torture. Acts of barbarism from a barbaric state. We are now having to sleep with the Devil to replace Russian oil and try and level out prices at the pumps.

A moral dilemma?

Well at least that appears the argument from our media and politicians. Truthfully, hard to argue with, especially extraction of confessions through torture where there is never justification or, indeed, sense. However, does that really present the whole picture?

Anyone who reads my posts will not be surprised that I am against the death penalty (another thread for that one please). However, the death penalty still exists in many parts of the world, not least Saudi Arabia. But a great deal more are executed in Egypt, and the number is dwarfed by the death tally in Iran; and don't get me started on the far east especially North Korea and China where convicts are executed daily and in far greater number. The significance of Saudi Arabia is they conduct their executions sporadically, and at a single time, thus heightening the focus.

Also, it is so easy for us to sneer with our centuries-earned liberties, but this is the norm in Saudi Arabia. It wasn't that long ago when we were hanging child pick-pockets. It is their system. They are reforming slowly, but at their pace. They'll get there, just as we did. They just need to do it themselves.

And so to the crimes. The media angle is mere association with terrorism - a crime given very wide application in their law - and something nebulously termed "deviant beliefs" which I immediately concluded was some religious crime of the "meal good enough for Jehovah" variety.

It may be. And the crimes may be ones that our more "enlightened" nation considers relatively minor, certainly not such as to justify torture and violent death. However, there is one difficult fact for Saudis . Despite "Dubya's" attempt to shift blame to the Iraqis to justify an attack on that sovereign state, those who destroyed the twin towers were Saudis to a man. Al Qaeda is substantially of Saudi origin and finance. 2500 Saudi nationals gleefully enlisted in IS and were no doubt complicit in atrocities committed. Thus, while the West refused to blame the Saudis openly, I bet there has been incessant pressure by us on them to get their house in order. Dutifully they have done just that with what they believe is the most advanced and intense de-radicalization program in the world.

Outside the successes of that program, there must have been failures; and those who continued to engage in outright acts of terror. Perhaps those were the "deviant beliefs"?

Thus, while I naturally abhor what they have done, I can't help feeling that they are holding up their hands and saying, you asked us to get out house in order, that is precisely what we are doing.

They don't tell us how to run our country, so what right do we have to tell them?
Of course they are heathens, but it is a bit late to get precious about it. We get their oil now, and we just need some more.

One day they will get their comeuppance, but not today.

America could increase production, so one wonders why we don't go to them. There must be a reason.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 15 Mar 22 1.24pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

They don't tell us how to run our country, so what right do we have to tell them?
Of course they are heathens, but it is a bit late to get precious about it. We get their oil now, and we just need some more.

One day they will get their comeuppance, but not today.

America could increase production, so one wonders why we don't go to them. There must be a reason.

Apparently, the Saudis aren't interested in talking to Biden concerning Russia.

Seems the words that you condemn with don't actually end up doing you any good further down the line.....The US state department is still going around issuing threats to countries that it can't control...watching India the middle east and China strike deals with Russia.

Who knew.

Apparently these guys can't think further ahead than their tweets.

America has the energy beneath its feet for energy independence.....but the Democrats are a party of clowns more prepared to harm their own people than operate with common sense.

Watching them slowly take on Trump's policies even makes me feel embarrassed for them.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Mar 2022 1.35pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 15 Mar 22 5.51pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

They don't tell us how to run our country, so what right do we have to tell them?
Of course they are heathens, but it is a bit late to get precious about it. We get their oil now, and we just need some more.

One day they will get their comeuppance, but not today.

America could increase production, so one wonders why we don't go to them. There must be a reason.

A dangerous thing with so much knowledge on this site to state anything from vague memory but I seem to recall that Arab oil is better than US oil for certain uses being the one that counts.

I may be wrong. Perhaps oil is oil?

Enough caveats there?

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 15 Mar 22 6.03pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

A dangerous thing with so much knowledge on this site to state anything from vague memory but I seem to recall that Arab oil is better than US oil for certain uses being the one that counts.

I may be wrong. Perhaps oil is oil?

Enough caveats there?

Yes, it could be about the grade of oil. One of my mates works in the Energy Department, or whatever it's called now, so I should know really.

 

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 15 Mar 22 6.43pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Yes, it could be about the grade of oil. One of my mates works in the Energy Department, or whatever it's called now, so I should know really.

Yep, I seem to recall it is very much about grades of oil. It varies considerably over the globe.

 


,.,.,..,

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 15 Mar 22 8.29pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Yes, it could be about the grade of oil. One of my mates works in the Energy Department, or whatever it's called now, so I should know really.

BEIS??

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 15 Mar 22 10.52pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Most of the oil from the Middle East is crude oil, whereas much of the present oil production in the United States is in the form of shale oil.

Shale oil is often extracted through fracking and is more expensive to extract than crude oil.

Crude oil is more versatile in its range of uses but requires more refining.

Shale oil serves best for producing middle-distillates such as kerosene, jet fuel, and diesel fuel

 

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 16 Mar 22 1.54pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Most of the oil from the Middle East is crude oil, whereas much of the present oil production in the United States is in the form of shale oil.

Shale oil is often extracted through fracking and is more expensive to extract than crude oil.

Crude oil is more versatile in its range of uses but requires more refining.

Shale oil serves best for producing middle-distillates such as kerosene, jet fuel, and diesel fuel

are you sure about diesel.? that fuel seems very heavy to me,..

 


,.,.,..,

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 17 Mar 22 2.33pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

are you sure about diesel.? that fuel seems very heavy to me,..

Shale Oil can be used for diesel/kerosene but is less well suited than crude oil. Oil Shale can not (different stuff).

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 15 Jun 22 9.04pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

So today they have removed from shops anything rainbow that is for kids age as it could encourage homosexuality. Yup hurty words are certainly worthy of the front page.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Jun 22 9.22pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

A place where those poor, underpaid, paupers of golf are always welcome.

 


Patrick Vieira's
Red and Blue Army!

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