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August 16 2022 8.36am

The Great Reset

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View W12's Profile W12 08 Jun 22 9.01am Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It's our democracy.

Not mine mate and calling it democracy is just sophistry

If the will of the people is not carried out then we are dictated to by someone else's "collective wisdom"

The fact that the majority have always been against mass immigration is probably the greatest example of this.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 08 Jun 22 9.12am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Not mine mate and calling it democracy is just sophistry

If the will of the people is not carried out then we are dictated to by someone else's "collective wisdom"

The fact that the majority have always been against mass immigration is probably the greatest example of this.

I think that's probably the loosest definition of 'wisdom' I have ever encountered. My preferred choice of wording would be 'collective will'.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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BlueJay Flag UK 08 Jun 22 9.21am

Originally posted by W12

Not mine mate and calling it democracy is just sophistry

If the will of the people is not carried out then we are dictated to by someone else's "collective wisdom"

The fact that the majority have always been against mass immigration is probably the greatest example of this.

This is certainly a fair point in isolation. Voters interests are often low down on the list no matter their party of choice. They are just thrown a few scraps before and after elections. As can be seen it is more often the monied who benefit from policies, convenient loopholes, government contracts and so on.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 08 Jun 22 9.27am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You are just repeating what you asserted before.

Repetition of an erroneous statement doesn't make it true. There is no kind way to say this, but you are simply wrong.

What you might expect of an MP makes no difference to what their job actually is. Your view mirrors what the Unions expect of those Labour MPs they sponsor. They are wrong, and so are you.

Your opinion. I suspect that most voters expect their MPs to carry out what they said in their manifestos and when they don't and they fail to call for a by election the voters punish them at the next opportunity.

I presume you saw nothing wrong in Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems abandoning a key pledge to abolish tuition fees because in your words "What you might expect of an MP makes no difference to what their job actually is."

Funny because the electorate disagreed with you Clegg and his gang were sacked at the earliest available opportunity.

To repeat I am not against an MP changing their mind on a major policy or deciding to joining another party but if they expect the public to support them they need to do the decent thing and resign and fight a by election on that issue.

By the way your view on MPs stems from Edmund Burke who said it after he was elected and then got sacked at the next GE. He's was just an opinion as well, Burke is often quoted by both sides however he also did some pretty representable things maybe in the future MPs will quote Boris, who knows.

Edited by Badger11 (08 Jun 2022 9.30am)

 


One more point

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 08 Jun 22 10.31am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by W12


The fact that the majority have always been against mass immigration is probably the greatest example of this.

well then the majority must all be a bunch of racists ? and they will need more education pertaining to this matter.

 


7 points from Manchester last season

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BlueJay Flag UK 08 Jun 22 10.51am

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

well then the majority must all be a bunch of racists ? and they will need more education pertaining to this matter.

While I appreciate you're being facetious, certainly a persons view of mass immigration often has very little to do with their perception of race. Many non white Brits are against it also. The simplistic pushed view of immigration as that of keeping others races out full stop is just a tactic used to end the debate before it begins. There are countless reasons why mass immigration is a bad idea for an Island. Resources, cultural, practicality, jobs, housing, an assumption that it's a given.. The list goes on. It helps to get people on board with the bulk, rather than this 'we only like our own' fringe. That is the other side of the coin that derails sensible discussion and policies ever coming to fruition ..

It's important to note that a view on immigration doesn't have to bleed into unworkable ideas and aversions about Brits of other races. Some unfortunately allow themselves to be brought into that fold.


Edited by BlueJay (08 Jun 2022 11.18am)

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 08 Jun 22 11.09am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

While I appreciate you're being facetious, certainly a persons view of mass immigration often has very little to do with their perception of race. Many non white Brits are against it also. The simplistic pushed view of immigration as that of keeping others races out full stop is just a tactic used to end the debate before it begins. There are countless reasons why mass immigration is a bad idea for an Island. Resources, cultural, practicality, jobs, housing, an assumption that it's a given.. The list goes on. It helps to get people on board with the bulk, rather than this 'we only like our own' fringe. That is the other side of the coin that derails sensible discussion and policies ever coming to fruition ..


Edited by BlueJay (08 Jun 2022 10.56am)

Yes I agree.

In reference to both your own comments and PV's, even the slightest notion of a logical objection to this can be tarred with that brush, or in fact will be by many.

If, for instance, thousands upon thousands of young white Americans or let's say Europeans started pouring into the country, daily, almost exclusively through illegal means would it the be considered 'racist' or otherwise to say 'Hold on a second, perhaps this isn't too dandy'?

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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BlueJay Flag UK 08 Jun 22 11.31am

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Yes I agree.

In reference to both your own comments and PV's, even the slightest notion of a logical objection to this can be tarred with that brush, or in fact will be by many.

If, for instance, thousands upon thousands of young white Americans or let's say Europeans started pouring into the country, daily, almost exclusively through illegal means would it the be considered 'racist' or otherwise to say 'Hold on a second, perhaps this isn't too dandy'?

Precisely. There should be no automatical assumption that, regardless of who it is, if you reach somewhere by illegal means, then that's fine. It of course causes more to do the same and becomes an industry and bigger problem than ever. What wound up happening essentially.


 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 08 Jun 22 11.36am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Precisely. There should be no automatical assumption that, regardless of who it is, if you reach somewhere by illegal means, then that's fine. It of course causes more to do the same and becomes an industry and bigger problem than ever. What wound up happening essentially.


Yep and back to your original post I think the conflation and hijacking by extremists polarises and demonises many a worthy notion.

You see it on the left too, where something of substance and worthy of note/discussion gets taken to an extreme by peoples who for me at either end of the spectrum but undoubtedly the two sides of the same coin.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 08 Jun 22 11.48am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Yes I agree.

In reference to both your own comments and PV's, even the slightest notion of a logical objection to this can be tarred with that brush, or in fact will be by many.

If, for instance, thousands upon thousands of young white Americans or let's say Europeans started pouring into the country, daily, almost exclusively through illegal means would it the be considered 'racist' or otherwise to say 'Hold on a second, perhaps this isn't too dandy'?

Agreed. A major issue with our membership of the EU was the obligation to accept all people from the EU, the vast majority of whom were white Christians - where was the racism in that?

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 08 Jun 22 11.50am

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Yep and back to your original post I think the conflation and hijacking by extremists polarises and demonises many a worthy notion.

You see it on the left too, where something of substance and worthy of note/discussion gets taken to an extreme by peoples who for me at either end of the spectrum but undoubtedly the two sides of the same coin.

Yes, the fringe of left and right may well despise each other but they are identical in many resects; the mindset at play, level of wayward indoctrination they've reached, demonisation of bog standard moderate views coupled with a near free pass to extremes in the direction of their politics, aspects of opting out of wider society, clan based nomenclature that lets you identify them in all of 7 seconds...

Edited by BlueJay (08 Jun 2022 11.59am)

 

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View Lombardinho's Profile Lombardinho Flag London 08 Jun 22 12.08pm Send a Private Message to Lombardinho Add Lombardinho as a friend

I'm not going to pretend I knew all of these techniques ages ago.
I didn't.
I just wish more of us could recognise them when they're applied.

[Link]

Of course, one or two of you will think I don't need to watch this. There's no way the wool gets pulled over MY eyes.

 

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