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January 27 2023 2.28pm

Taking the knee.

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View Behind Enemy Lines's Profile Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 09 Aug 22 9.11am Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

If the England team fails to take the knee at the World Cup then all this kneeling & hand wringing for Saint Floyd will have been for nothing.

As far as leftist movements go BLM has to be one of the worst & probably created more racists than it actually 'educated' away from it.

And please do not lecture me on how it was rebranded away from BLM - different slogan same rotten movement.
There was a time during lockdown the seats in Selhurst had BLM Tifos draped all over them.

The whole thing has been a disaster.

Yes, I too await the visual protests that the England team will make at the World Cup. Let's see if the LGBTQ+ get a mention.
On the subject of BLM, which cannot be disassociated from the political movement of the same name, the media and football associations should have distanced themselves from the slogan and used the momentum of the movement to increase awareness of the existing Kick it Out campaign. I don't think the 'racists' on here would necessarily have objected to an increase in its visibility, but by going full tilt into the Black Lives Matter slogan there are obviously people who object to the political connection. It could have been done so much better...
Edited by Ouzo Dan (08 Aug 2022 8.12pm)

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 09 Aug 22 9.54am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Does make me laugh this whole thing especially reading some posts, for me it captures perfectly all that is seemingly wrong with society and culture today. On the one hand you have those bemoaning yet another social justice campaign, with varying reasons and the other you have people thinking this is some sort of evidence for hatred and justification for the very thing itself.

Ubiquitously, I do believe some peoples might actually be however there is a fine line between intent and poor articulation... both ways. Those who have a grievance may fail to articulate absolutely perfectly just what it is and anything they say that does not fit the narrative exactly is automatically attacked by those seeking martyrdom and presumably some attention and fulfilment in their own lives.

Personally, I would rid football of racism if I had a magic wand but alas that is not the case. Furthermore, I don't think the taking of the knee makes any difference whatsoever. Football is punctuated and seasoned with tribal and other hatred and this will always take many forms. Minimising if not eradicating racism is something we should strive for however ceremonious gestures can be tiresome at best and will at some point lose any effectiveness, if they ever had any, and start to rile up those who just want to watch football (as we are seeing).

As an example, in the light of Barry Bennell, Adam Johnson, Thomas Partey and no doubt so many more, I might propose a macarena before each and every match to oppose paedophilia, sexual crime and abuse. It might take a hold shortly but sooner or later people will get annoyed, tired or fed up with it and it should be retired. Once again, I do not believe it will make any actual difference to fighting the cause, just make some feel better about themselves. The notion that non-compliance with the macarena, or even a moan at it's place at a football match, being evidence of a paedophile, rapist or what have you is utter nonsense. No matter the cause, such dictatorial behaviour (you must embrace, participate and not criticise 'x') is always worrying and I believe a big cause for concern and rebellion from some.

It is possible to be both against racism but also against taking the knee at every single match. There is a difference between fighting to minimise and eradicate social wrongs and just hijacking a national pastime to use as a platform for continuous social conditioning (or possibly commercial/financial gain). After television generally, I struggle to see many larger communication channels to mass audiences beyond football.

I would like one day to see any halfwit who might be inclined to throw a banana, scream obscenity, send abusive messages etc turn up somewhere and say 'I was hellbent on [the aforementioned] before everyone started taking the knee and I realised just how thick I was'. Won't and never will happen. As I opened with, and evidenced on this latest thread, you see those who may have sat slightly on either side of the fence being pushed further apart by these things as opposed to drawing people together for solutions and progress.

Personally, I'd like to see us shelf the 'knee' for now, revisit it in reaction to any notable racist incidents and if there is any genuine intent, look at more constructive and effective ways of tackling racism in football although, as previously mentioned, I believe there is an extent to which this can be achieved. There will never be a 'perfect 0' on that score in my opinion but thus far very little is being done to actually address this and a lot is being done to take football away from it's purest form for whatever reasons - many of which can and will be speculated upon.

I'd also add Wilf has chosen to stand, and I respect him and support him in doing so. Pat has voiced intentions and wishes to continue the knee and I will equally respect and support that decision. My main concern is it is causing more distraction and division than anything now, something we could do without. My main focus in this field is to support my club, and that includes the players, staff and all fellow fans. My concern is any negative influence upon these.

Edited by Nicholas91 (09 Aug 2022 10.20am)

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Online Flag CR3 09 Aug 22 10.35am Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Does make me laugh this whole thing especially reading some posts, for me it captures perfectly all that is seemingly wrong with society and culture today. On the one hand you have those bemoaning yet another social justice campaign, with varying reasons and the other you have people thinking this is some sort of evidence for hatred and justification for the very thing itself.

Ubiquitously, I do believe some peoples might actually be however there is a fine line between intent and poor articulation... both ways. Those who have a grievance may fail to articulate absolutely perfectly just what it is and anything they say that does not fit the narrative exactly is automatically attacked by those seeking martyrdom and presumably some attention and fulfilment in their own lives.

Personally, I would rid football of racism if I had a magic wand but alas that is not the case. Furthermore, I don't think the taking of the knee makes any difference whatsoever. Football is punctuated and seasoned with tribal and other hatred and this will always take many forms. Minimising if not eradicating racism is something we should strive for however ceremonious gestures can be tiresome at best and will at some point lose any effectiveness, if they ever had any, and start to rile up those who just want to watch football (as we are seeing).

As an example, in the light of Barry Bennell, Adam Johnson, Thomas Partey and no doubt so many more, I might propose a macarena before each and every match to oppose paedophilia, sexual crime and abuse. It might take a hold shortly but sooner or later people will get annoyed, tired or fed up with it and it should be retired. Once again, I do not believe it will make any actual difference to fighting the cause, just make some feel better about themselves. The notion that non-compliance with the macarena, or even a moan at it's place at a football match, being evidence of a paedophile, rapist or what have you is utter nonsense. No matter the cause, such dictatorial behaviour (you must embrace, participate and not criticise 'x') is always worrying and I believe a big cause for concern and rebellion from some.

It is possible to be both against racism but also against taking the knee at every single match. There is a difference between fighting to minimise and eradicate social wrongs and just hijacking a national pastime to use as a platform for continuous social conditioning (or possibly commercial/financial gain). After television generally, I struggle to see many larger communication channels to mass audiences beyond football.

I would like one day to see any halfwit who might be inclined to throw a banana, scream obscenity, send abusive messages etc turn up somewhere and say 'I was hellbent on [the aforementioned] before everyone started taking the knee and I realised just how thick I was'. Won't and never will happen. As I opened with, and evidenced on this latest thread, you see those who may have sat slightly on either side of the fence being pushed further apart by these things as opposed to drawing people together for solutions and progress.

Personally, I'd like to see us shelf the 'knee' for now, revisit it in reaction to any notable racist incidents and if there is any genuine intent, look at more constructive and effective ways of tackling racism in football although, as previously mentioned, I believe there is an extent to which this can be achieved. There will never be a 'perfect 0' on that score in my opinion but thus far very little is being done to actually address this and a lot is being done to take football away from it's purest form for whatever reasons - many of which can and will be speculated upon.

I'd also add Wilf has chosen to stand, and I respect him and support him in doing so. Pat has voiced intentions and wishes to continue the knee and I will equally respect and support that decision. My main concern is it is causing more distraction and division than anything now, something we could do without. My main focus in this field is to support my club, and that includes the players, staff and all fellow fans. My concern is any negative influence upon these.

Edited by Nicholas91 (09 Aug 2022 10.20am)

I agree, although not in as many words.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 09 Aug 22 10.42am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by berlinpalace

This is a debate? Ha, ha. Priceless. I think if they still want to take the knee itís entirely up to them. Quite why Hralf and some of the others get quite so obsessed about it is just weird.

So expressing an opposing view is 'obsessed' but the commercially and politically driven 24/7 blanket 'anti racism' campaign in the media is perfectly fine?

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 09 Aug 22 10.44am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

I agree, although not in as many words.

Apologies.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View EaglesEaglesEagles's Profile EaglesEaglesEagles Flag 09 Aug 22 11.19am Send a Private Message to EaglesEaglesEagles Add EaglesEaglesEagles as a friend

Where I am seated in the HL, we're too busy chanting at the start of the match, so that I barely notice it. Don't hear any token applause, don't hear whoever's commentating say "the players take a knee in opposition to discrimination of all forms."

At the Emirates the applause probably forms the loudest bit of matches outside of goals, but it's irrelevant at Palace. I think The Premier League are probably a bit worried because the act is so devoid of meaning any more that they envisage it becoming like the KickItOut t-shirt campaign. Wear a t-shirt, do nothing. Well, it has become like that. So it's failed, no matter what anyone else says. As people have pointed out, prejudiced adults won't be won over. It's unlikely to affect children. Who cares anymore?

 


I ain't got nuthin' funny to say. Sorry.

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View JRW2's Profile JRW2 Flag Dulwich 09 Aug 22 12.43pm Send a Private Message to JRW2 Add JRW2 as a friend

Originally posted by EaglesEaglesEagles

Where I am seated in the HL, we're too busy chanting at the start of the match, so that I barely notice it. Don't hear any token applause, don't hear whoever's commentating say "the players take a knee in opposition to discrimination of all forms."

At the Emirates the applause probably forms the loudest bit of matches outside of goals, but it's irrelevant at Palace. I think The Premier League are probably a bit worried because the act is so devoid of meaning any more that they envisage it becoming like the KickItOut t-shirt campaign. Wear a t-shirt, do nothing. Well, it has become like that. So it's failed, no matter what anyone else says. As people have pointed out, prejudiced adults won't be won over. It's unlikely to affect children. Who cares anymore?

Excellent post. If only that could be the last word on the subject.

 

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View Aray's Profile Aray Flag South London 10 Aug 22 2.02pm Send a Private Message to Aray Add Aray as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

On the point about lack of representation in the board room I don't see this a racist more like money related.

If a black person turned up at their local club with a sack load of money wanting to become a shareholder I would imagine they would welcome him with open arms.

So the question is why do black people not want to become directors and invest their money, maybe because they have better things to do with it.

How about the lack of representation at manager level?

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 10 Aug 22 3.14pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Aray

How about the lack of representation at manager level?

Good point and I don't have a definitive answer but will make some observations:

- Some black players choose to go home to their country of origin to help the local game and do become managers and coaches. I guess these would not be included in the numbers.

- Many players (any colour) are multi millionaires and decide they don't need the grief.

- Some players (any colour) want to become managers but refuse to put the work in e.g. I am an international so offer me the job and I will then take the coaching badges. I have no sympathy with these people they can afford to do the coaching and you would not offer a job to somebody without qualifications. This paragraph was based on a BBC documentary where owners complained this had been the attitude. At the time (10 years ago) there were only 13 black coaches with the UEFA B badge I hope there are more today.

To be honest I am not concerned so much about famous black players PV has shown that if you are prepared to put the effort in and you deliver the jobs will come.

I think the real issue is the gym teacher or Sunday morning coach who would like to progress but just doesn't see a path and the coaching badges are too expensive for them.

The PL should insist that every club train x number of local coaches from the community per annum at their expense we have a shocking lack of qualified football coaches.

In short we need to broaden and deepen the gene pool.

 


One more point

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 10 Aug 22 4.27pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Aray

How about the lack of representation at manager level?

Have you checked the African leagues. I reckon most of the managers are black. Does that not count ?

 

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View nhp61's Profile nhp61 Flag Goring-By-Sea born, now in Brackne... 10 Aug 22 5.04pm Send a Private Message to nhp61 Add nhp61 as a friend

Originally posted by Aray

How about the lack of representation at manager level?

That could be because there are just not that many who are good enough to be managers.

I am not in favour of "quotas" as that could be viewed as positive discrimination.

Appointment of managers should be based on merit, not the colour of their skin. If more black players decide to go into management, and, like anyone regardless of colour or sexual orientation, prove themselves to be good managers, then the numbers will start increasing.

 

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View eagleman13's Profile eagleman13 Flag On The Road To Hell & Alicante 10 Aug 22 5.21pm Send a Private Message to eagleman13 Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add eagleman13 as a friend

Seems like players are fed up with it . . . [Link]

 


The Child Has Grown,
The Dream Is Gone, And,
I Have Become,
Comfortably Numb. . . .
[Link]

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