Bad recruitment

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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 26 Mar 23 11.48am
Originally posted by MrRobbo I don't know if that's 100% true. Sure money helps, and it helps you be lazy with recruitment. But plenty of examples of players that don't cost the earth. How much did Brighton's first team cost? Brentford? As you pointed out we've started to find good young players. Issue being the teams that are good at this have been doing this for years. And we've only just started. We're also not good enough at identifying them early enough. All the players mentioned had a profile and (because we needed to) were first team ready. As well as loads of money, we lack a long term recruitment plan. As much as it pains to say look at some of our neighbours stars: Mitoma - £2.5m Caicedo - £4.5m Mac Allister - £7m All bought for modest fees, all loaned out for a season or 2 before being ready for hte first team. All now worth a LOT. Realistically we are light years away from them. They are amazing recruitment. Not bad recruitment by Palace. You can't say our recruitment is bad just because another team's is incredible. If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.
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Ginger Pubic Wig

Wickham de L'Ouest 26 Mar 23 11.48am

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Originally posted by MrRobbo

I don't know if that's 100% true. Sure money helps, and it helps you be lazy with recruitment.

But plenty of examples of players that don't cost the earth.

How much did Brighton's first team cost? Brentford?

As you pointed out we've started to find good young players. Issue being the teams that are good at this have been doing this for years. And we've only just started. We're also not good enough at identifying them early enough.

All the players mentioned had a profile and (because we needed to) were first team ready.

As well as loads of money, we lack a long term recruitment plan. As much as it pains to say look at some of our neighbours stars:

Mitoma - £2.5m
Caicedo - £4.5m
Mac Allister - £7m

All bought for modest fees, all loaned out for a season or 2 before being ready for hte first team. All now worth a LOT.

Realistically we are light years away from them.

They are amazing recruitment. Not bad recruitment by Palace. You can't say our recruitment is bad just because another team's is incredible.

If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 26 Mar 23 11.58am
Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig They are amazing recruitment. Not bad recruitment by Palace. You can't say our recruitment is bad just because another team's is incredible. Not forgetting Evan Ferguson signed from Bohemians. Cucurella was signed for £15 Mill and was signed by Chelsea for a fee which could rise to over £60 Mill.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 26 Mar 23 11.58am

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

They are amazing recruitment. Not bad recruitment by Palace. You can't say our recruitment is bad just because another team's is incredible.

Not forgetting Evan Ferguson signed from Bohemians.
Cucurella was signed for £15 Mill and was signed by Chelsea for a fee which could rise to over £60 Mill.

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Dubai Eagle 26 Mar 23 12.07pm
Doogie now has some 10 years experience in the DOF role, so its not necessarily lack of experience in the role, as I have said before he could be unearthing loads of talent but unless the club actually sign the cheque(s) we as supporters wont know very much about it (if anything at all) if I was to be critical of Doogie in this role it would only be to say that it would have been better if he had been DOF at another club before getting the role at Palace so he would have been exposed to at least one other clubs interpretation of the role, how it operated for them.
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Dubai Eagle

26 Mar 23 12.07pm

Doogie now has some 10 years experience in the DOF role, so its not necessarily lack of experience in the role, as I have said before he could be unearthing loads of talent but unless the club actually sign the cheque(s) we as supporters wont know very much about it (if anything at all) if I was to be critical of Doogie in this role it would only be to say that it would have been better if he had been DOF at another club before getting the role at Palace so he would have been exposed to at least one other clubs interpretation of the role, how it operated for them.

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Eaglecoops CR3 26 Mar 23 12.48pm
Originally posted by Dubai Eagle Doogie now has some 10 years experience in the DOF role, so its not necessarily lack of experience in the role, as I have said before he could be unearthing loads of talent but unless the club actually sign the cheque(s) we as supporters wont know very much about it (if anything at all) if I was to be critical of Doogie in this role it would only be to say that it would have been better if he had been DOF at another club before getting the role at Palace so he would have been exposed to at least one other clubs interpretation of the role, how it operated for them. He does seem to ‘unearth’ talent within the £8m-£15m category. I don’t really call that unearthing players. We need to be finding these players the move before they become £10m players, that is when they were a couple of £m. I tend to think his scouting technique is somewhat lazy or if it is not his fault then the board are way too risk averse and won’t touch players until they are proven.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 26 Mar 23 12.48pm

Originally posted by Dubai Eagle

He does seem to ‘unearth’ talent within the £8m-£15m category. I don’t really call that unearthing players.

We need to be finding these players the move before they become £10m players, that is when they were a couple of £m. I tend to think his scouting technique is somewhat lazy or if it is not his fault then the board are way too risk averse and won’t touch players until they are proven.

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Mar 23 4.07pm
Originally posted by Willo Not forgetting Evan Ferguson signed from Bohemians. Cucurella was signed for £15 Mill and was signed by Chelsea for a fee which could rise to over £60 Mill. It's probably the Ferguson we were actually trying to get. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Mar 23 4.07pm

Originally posted by Willo

Not forgetting Evan Ferguson signed from Bohemians.
Cucurella was signed for £15 Mill and was signed by Chelsea for a fee which could rise to over £60 Mill.

It's probably the Ferguson we were actually trying to get.

Red and Blue Army!

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grumpymort US/Thailand/UK 26 Mar 23 4.48pm
Originally posted by PatrickA Parish likes to surround himself with lots of Palace old boys at the club, including Bright, Freedman, McCarthy, Powell and Derry (formerly, although apparently still on the payroll). Nothing wrong with this in itself as these are people he may well trust and who he believes have the club’s best interests at heart. However, from a dispassionate standpoint are they the best qualified in their positions that could be hired from a professional standpoint? We’ve used another former player James Scowcroft as a scout , mainly in France. I can’t believe that best practice means only employing Palace old boys. This extends to extolling the virtues of Roy because he’s a Croydon boy and a Palace fan as if this makes him a better manager. As a matter of fact, he’s had a very solid career which means he’s qualified to do the job anyway so the local connection is incidental rather than the key reason for his recruitment. I’m not sure the same could be said about some others employed. Perhaps this seems harsh, but if we want to aspire to improve in scouting and across the board, we surely have to look outside the Palace network too. This is why SP needs to go he is trying to keep it like the old days a family club and do it all on cheap. It's suppose to be a global business now he doesn't appear to understand this it's like he sees it as national level only. We have American owners and not even tried to tap really into that market which sums it up it's too big of a job for him now. The other thing with SP this job is his biggest payout one he has ever had and most of his wealth is coming from this and the sub companies it has allowed. Our staff are complete joke on almost every level maybe a handful are any good rest not really. I expect this is why no one is interested in coming to the club owners wise it doesnt have much appeal for the value being placed on it. (VPN) - [Link] (Alt VPN) - [Link]
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grumpymort

US/Thailand/UK 26 Mar 23 4.48pm

Originally posted by PatrickA

Parish likes to surround himself with lots of Palace old boys at the club, including Bright, Freedman, McCarthy, Powell and Derry (formerly, although apparently still on the payroll).
Nothing wrong with this in itself as these are people he may well trust and who he believes have the club’s best interests at heart.
However, from a dispassionate standpoint are they the best qualified in their positions that could be hired from a professional standpoint?
We’ve used another former player James Scowcroft as a scout , mainly in France.
I can’t believe that best practice means only employing Palace old boys.
This extends to extolling the virtues of Roy because he’s a Croydon boy and a Palace fan as if this makes him a better manager.
As a matter of fact, he’s had a very solid career which means he’s qualified to do the job anyway so the local connection is incidental rather than the key reason for his recruitment.
I’m not sure the same could be said about some others employed.
Perhaps this seems harsh, but if we want to aspire to improve in scouting and across the board, we surely have to look outside the Palace network too.

This is why SP needs to go he is trying to keep it like the old days a family club and do it all on cheap.

It's suppose to be a global business now he doesn't appear to understand this it's like he sees it as national level only.

We have American owners and not even tried to tap really into that market which sums it up it's too big of a job for him now.

The other thing with SP this job is his biggest payout one he has ever had and most of his wealth is coming from this and the sub companies it has allowed.

Our staff are complete joke on almost every level maybe a handful are any good rest not really.

I expect this is why no one is interested in coming to the club owners wise it doesnt have much appeal for the value being placed on it.

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(Alt VPN) - [Link]

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Den1923 27 Mar 23 10.12am
Originally posted by grumpymort This is why SP needs to go he is trying to keep it like the old days a family club and do it all on cheap. It's suppose to be a global business now he doesn't appear to understand this it's like he sees it as national level only. We have American owners and not even tried to tap really into that market which sums it up it's too big of a job for him now. The other thing with SP this job is his biggest payout one he has ever had and most of his wealth is coming from this and the sub companies it has allowed. Our staff are complete joke on almost every level maybe a handful are any good rest not really. I expect this is why no one is interested in coming to the club owners wise it doesnt have much appeal for the value being placed on it. I do think you have hit the nail on the head, SP appears to be very egotistical and uses his position as a EPL Chairman to promote this whilst at the same time also being autocratic as a boss and as a consequence surrounds himself with yes men. The club will never be able to move forward whilst he is in charge, we need a more progressive Chairman who will surround himself with competent people, who have proven track records and who can do the job. BH&A are a good example of that where the Chairman empowers the people and that is paying huge dividends at all levels within the club.
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Den1923

27 Mar 23 10.12am

Originally posted by grumpymort

This is why SP needs to go he is trying to keep it like the old days a family club and do it all on cheap.

It's suppose to be a global business now he doesn't appear to understand this it's like he sees it as national level only.

We have American owners and not even tried to tap really into that market which sums it up it's too big of a job for him now.

The other thing with SP this job is his biggest payout one he has ever had and most of his wealth is coming from this and the sub companies it has allowed.

Our staff are complete joke on almost every level maybe a handful are any good rest not really.

I expect this is why no one is interested in coming to the club owners wise it doesnt have much appeal for the value being placed on it.

I do think you have hit the nail on the head, SP appears to be very egotistical and uses his position as a EPL Chairman to promote this whilst at the same time also being autocratic as a boss and as a consequence surrounds himself with yes men. The club will never be able to move forward whilst he is in charge, we need a more progressive Chairman who will surround himself with competent people, who have proven track records and who can do the job. BH&A are a good example of that where the Chairman empowers the people and that is paying huge dividends at all levels within the club.

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MrRobbo Purley 27 Mar 23 11.04am
Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig They are amazing recruitment. Not bad recruitment by Palace. You can't say our recruitment is bad just because another team's is incredible. No 100% agree. Our recent recruitment has been good. I just don't think it particularly sophisticated, or 'scouted'. You could have scouted most of them by watching hte first 10 mins of the football league show. We are not unearthing gems, we've bringing guys to the club that are already there or there abouts. Which is ok, just not amazing.
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MrRobbo

Purley 27 Mar 23 11.04am

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

They are amazing recruitment. Not bad recruitment by Palace. You can't say our recruitment is bad just because another team's is incredible.

No 100% agree. Our recent recruitment has been good.

I just don't think it particularly sophisticated, or 'scouted'. You could have scouted most of them by watching hte first 10 mins of the football league show.

We are not unearthing gems, we've bringing guys to the club that are already there or there abouts. Which is ok, just not amazing.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Mar 23 11.12am
Originally posted by MrRobbo No 100% agree. Our recent recruitment has been good. I just don't think it particularly sophisticated, or 'scouted'. You could have scouted most of them by watching hte first 10 mins of the football league show. We are not unearthing gems, we've bringing guys to the club that are already there or there abouts. Which is ok, just not amazing. In this modern era, technology plays a significant role in identifying players with the use of the likes of 'Wyscout', 'Scout7', 'AiScout' etc etc. The days of the manager travelling the length and breadth of the country in all weathers to 'Run the rule' over a player are in the dim and distant past. I recall being engaged in conversation with Bobby Gould who informed me that he travelled all the way to Yeovil to see Stuart Pearce, then playing for Wealdstone, and within 10 mins he had decided that he wanted to sign Pearce for Coventry. There are of course club representatives who still assess some players whilst watching them perform in games. Edited by Willo (27 Mar 2023 11.25am)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Mar 23 11.12am

Originally posted by MrRobbo

No 100% agree. Our recent recruitment has been good.

I just don't think it particularly sophisticated, or 'scouted'. You could have scouted most of them by watching hte first 10 mins of the football league show.

We are not unearthing gems, we've bringing guys to the club that are already there or there abouts. Which is ok, just not amazing.

In this modern era, technology plays a significant role in identifying players with the use of the likes of 'Wyscout', 'Scout7', 'AiScout' etc etc.

The days of the manager travelling the length and breadth of the country in all weathers to 'Run the rule' over a player are in the dim and distant past.
I recall being engaged in conversation with Bobby Gould who informed me that he travelled all the way to Yeovil to see Stuart Pearce, then playing for Wealdstone, and within 10 mins he had decided that he wanted to sign Pearce for Coventry.

There are of course club representatives who still assess some players whilst watching them perform in games.

Edited by Willo (27 Mar 2023 11.25am)

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MrRobbo Purley 27 Mar 23 11.25am
Originally posted by PatrickA Parish likes to surround himself with lots of Palace old boys at the club, including Bright, Freedman, McCarthy, Powell and Derry (formerly, although apparently still on the payroll). Nothing wrong with this in itself as these are people he may well trust and who he believes have the club’s best interests at heart. However, from a dispassionate standpoint are they the best qualified in their positions that could be hired from a professional standpoint? We’ve used another former player James Scowcroft as a scout , mainly in France. I can’t believe that best practice means only employing Palace old boys. This extends to extolling the virtues of Roy because he’s a Croydon boy and a Palace fan as if this makes him a better manager. As a matter of fact, he’s had a very solid career which means he’s qualified to do the job anyway so the local connection is incidental rather than the key reason for his recruitment. I’m not sure the same could be said about some others employed. Perhaps this seems harsh, but if we want to aspire to improve in scouting and across the board, we surely have to look outside the Palace network too. I don't know, but I'm starting to think that this is central to lots of our issues. I'm sure Dougie does an ok job, but is he the best DOF in the country? Is he in the top 20? Top 50? Top 100? How could he be, he had a few stints managing championship clubs and then got the DOF role in a prem team. Learning on the job. Is that what we want or need? These roles DOF, technical director, head of scouting etc are such pivotal appointments. You want someone to come in with a stellar CV knowing how to do the job.
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MrRobbo

Purley 27 Mar 23 11.25am

Originally posted by PatrickA

I don't know, but I'm starting to think that this is central to lots of our issues.

I'm sure Dougie does an ok job, but is he the best DOF in the country? Is he in the top 20? Top 50? Top 100?

How could he be, he had a few stints managing championship clubs and then got the DOF role in a prem team. Learning on the job. Is that what we want or need?

These roles DOF, technical director, head of scouting etc are such pivotal appointments. You want someone to come in with a stellar CV knowing how to do the job.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Mar 23 11.29am
Originally posted by MrRobbo I don't know, but I'm starting to think that this is central to lots of our issues. I'm sure Dougie does an ok job, but is he the best DOF in the country? Is he in the top 20? Top 50? Top 100? How could he be, he had a few stints managing championship clubs and then got the DOF role in a prem team. Learning on the job. Is that what we want or need? These roles DOF, technical director, head of scouting etc are such pivotal appointments. You want someone to come in with a stellar CV knowing how to do the job. As I have already asserted the 'Director of Football' role can vary from club to club. The role does not merely include recruitment : [Link] Edited by Willo (27 Mar 2023 11.34am)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Mar 23 11.29am

Originally posted by MrRobbo

I don't know, but I'm starting to think that this is central to lots of our issues.

I'm sure Dougie does an ok job, but is he the best DOF in the country? Is he in the top 20? Top 50? Top 100?

How could he be, he had a few stints managing championship clubs and then got the DOF role in a prem team. Learning on the job. Is that what we want or need?

These roles DOF, technical director, head of scouting etc are such pivotal appointments. You want someone to come in with a stellar CV knowing how to do the job.

As I have already asserted the 'Director of Football' role can vary from club to club. The role does not merely include recruitment :

[Link]

Edited by Willo (27 Mar 2023 11.34am)

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 27 Mar 23 11.38am
I always wonder why we use Championship Manager 2000 rather than Football Manager 23 for scouting. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 27 Mar 23 11.38am

I always wonder why we use Championship Manager 2000 rather than Football Manager 23 for scouting.

Red and Blue Army!

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