Bad recruitment

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CpfcWeTrust1 27 Mar 23 12.32pm
I think there's a vast difference between not buying enough players and being a bad DOF. Guehi - now worth far more than what we paid for him Anderson- worth far more than what we paid Eze - as above Olise - As above. I think the issue is not replacing and having enough players to cover roles. This could be down to the directors and the money given to pay for players, financial fair play, wage structure, how appealing it is to be in a mid to bottom league Premier league club albeit around London, the money vs value placed on the players they want, an ethos already been discussed in previous interviews that they want to recruit the right type of player. I think they are fearful of splashing big money after buying players which haven't lived up to expectation - your Bentekes and Sakho. I don't think the club can cover making such big losses as it doesn't seem like the Americans are too enamoured with doing so again.
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CpfcWeTrust1

27 Mar 23 12.32pm

I think there's a vast difference between not buying enough players and being a bad DOF.

Guehi - now worth far more than what we paid for him
Anderson- worth far more than what we paid
Eze - as above
Olise - As above.

I think the issue is not replacing and having enough players to cover roles. This could be down to the directors and the money given to pay for players, financial fair play, wage structure, how appealing it is to be in a mid to bottom league Premier league club albeit around London, the money vs value placed on the players they want, an ethos already been discussed in previous interviews that they want to recruit the right type of player.

I think they are fearful of splashing big money after buying players which haven't lived up to expectation - your Bentekes and Sakho. I don't think the club can cover making such big losses as it doesn't seem like the Americans are too enamoured with doing so again.

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MrRobbo Purley 27 Mar 23 1.28pm
Originally posted by Willo In this modern era, technology plays a significant role in identifying players with the use of the likes of 'Wyscout', 'Scout7', 'AiScout' etc etc. The days of the manager travelling the length and breadth of the country in all weathers to 'Run the rule' over a player are in the dim and distant past. I recall being engaged in conversation with Bobby Gould who informed me that he travelled all the way to Yeovil to see Stuart Pearce, then playing for Wealdstone, and within 10 mins he had decided that he wanted to sign Pearce for Coventry. There are of course club representatives who still assess some players whilst watching them perform in games. Edited by Willo (27 Mar 2023 11.25am) I think we all know that scouting would have improved, and tech will paly a big part. My point wasn't about bodies on the ground (I have no idea how many we have) It was about the sophistication of our approach. We aren't making completely left field signings. As I said in Olise, Eze and Guehi they were all touted by sports journos, magazines and people in the business as being top top players of the future. Hardly requires a competent scouting function! Anderson and Doucoure were international players! Doesn't make them good signings, they are. My point is that it wouldn't have taken more than a keen interest in football to know of these guys.
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MrRobbo

Purley 27 Mar 23 1.28pm

Originally posted by Willo

In this modern era, technology plays a significant role in identifying players with the use of the likes of 'Wyscout', 'Scout7', 'AiScout' etc etc.

The days of the manager travelling the length and breadth of the country in all weathers to 'Run the rule' over a player are in the dim and distant past.
I recall being engaged in conversation with Bobby Gould who informed me that he travelled all the way to Yeovil to see Stuart Pearce, then playing for Wealdstone, and within 10 mins he had decided that he wanted to sign Pearce for Coventry.

There are of course club representatives who still assess some players whilst watching them perform in games.

Edited by Willo (27 Mar 2023 11.25am)

I think we all know that scouting would have improved, and tech will paly a big part.

My point wasn't about bodies on the ground (I have no idea how many we have) It was about the sophistication of our approach. We aren't making completely left field signings.

As I said in Olise, Eze and Guehi they were all touted by sports journos, magazines and people in the business as being top top players of the future. Hardly requires a competent scouting function!

Anderson and Doucoure were international players!

Doesn't make them good signings, they are. My point is that it wouldn't have taken more than a keen interest in football to know of these guys.

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MrRobbo Purley 27 Mar 23 1.32pm
Originally posted by Willo As I have already asserted the 'Director of Football' role can vary from club to club. The role does not merely include recruitment : [Link] Edited by Willo (27 Mar 2023 11.34am) Not sure anyone said it was. Simply questioning if Parish is making the right decisions, or employing people that he likes/feels safe with. Whilst Dougie might have some experience under his belt now, there is no way he would have been even taken to interview if SP was genuinely looking for a top class DoF.
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MrRobbo

Purley 27 Mar 23 1.32pm

Originally posted by Willo

As I have already asserted the 'Director of Football' role can vary from club to club. The role does not merely include recruitment :

[Link]

Edited by Willo (27 Mar 2023 11.34am)

Not sure anyone said it was. Simply questioning if Parish is making the right decisions, or employing people that he likes/feels safe with.

Whilst Dougie might have some experience under his belt now, there is no way he would have been even taken to interview if SP was genuinely looking for a top class DoF.

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MrRobbo Purley 27 Mar 23 1.44pm
Originally posted by Dubai Eagle Doogie now has some 10 years experience in the DOF role, so its not necessarily lack of experience in the role, as I have said before he could be unearthing loads of talent but unless the club actually sign the cheque(s) we as supporters wont know very much about it (if anything at all) if I was to be critical of Doogie in this role it would only be to say that it would have been better if he had been DOF at another club before getting the role at Palace so he would have been exposed to at least one other clubs interpretation of the role, how it operated for them. Yeah in reality (and not saying he is bad) but he would have had to make it up as he went along. If this was a business, the board would never let a ex worker be given the (I'm guessing) biggest back office job with no experience.
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MrRobbo

Purley 27 Mar 23 1.44pm

Originally posted by Dubai Eagle

Doogie now has some 10 years experience in the DOF role, so its not necessarily lack of experience in the role, as I have said before he could be unearthing loads of talent but unless the club actually sign the cheque(s) we as supporters wont know very much about it (if anything at all) if I was to be critical of Doogie in this role it would only be to say that it would have been better if he had been DOF at another club before getting the role at Palace so he would have been exposed to at least one other clubs interpretation of the role, how it operated for them.

Yeah in reality (and not saying he is bad) but he would have had to make it up as he went along.

If this was a business, the board would never let a ex worker be given the (I'm guessing) biggest back office job with no experience.

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silvertop Portishead 27 Mar 23 2.25pm
Originally posted by MrRobbo No 100% agree. Our recent recruitment has been good. I just don't think it particularly sophisticated, or 'scouted'. You could have scouted most of them by watching hte first 10 mins of the football league show. We are not unearthing gems, we've bringing guys to the club that are already there or there abouts. Which is ok, just not amazing. New upgraded academy. Currently doing brilliant. Will that feed through? In the word's of Roy Orbison - too soon to know.
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silvertop

Portishead 27 Mar 23 2.25pm

Originally posted by MrRobbo

No 100% agree. Our recent recruitment has been good.

I just don't think it particularly sophisticated, or 'scouted'. You could have scouted most of them by watching hte first 10 mins of the football league show.

We are not unearthing gems, we've bringing guys to the club that are already there or there abouts. Which is ok, just not amazing.

New upgraded academy. Currently doing brilliant. Will that feed through? In the word's of Roy Orbison - too soon to know.

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silvertop Portishead 27 Mar 23 2.27pm
Originally posted by MrRobbo Yeah in reality (and not saying he is bad) but he would have had to make it up as he went along. If this was a business, the board would never let a ex worker be given the (I'm guessing) biggest back office job with no experience. He did pop off and manage a couple of clubs before he popped back with his tail between his legs.
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silvertop

Portishead 27 Mar 23 2.27pm

Originally posted by MrRobbo

Yeah in reality (and not saying he is bad) but he would have had to make it up as he went along.

If this was a business, the board would never let a ex worker be given the (I'm guessing) biggest back office job with no experience.

He did pop off and manage a couple of clubs before he popped back with his tail between his legs.

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MrRobbo Purley 27 Mar 23 4.16pm
Originally posted by silvertop He did pop off and manage a couple of clubs before he popped back with his tail between his legs. Yep, and both of those gigs will have given him a more well rounded view of being a football manager. But (and I'm being provocative) I'm not sure 3 stints of management at championship level qualifies you to be a DoF at the biggest league in the world. Its like getting a job on the Apple board after working in one of the shops!
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MrRobbo

Purley 27 Mar 23 4.16pm

Originally posted by silvertop

He did pop off and manage a couple of clubs before he popped back with his tail between his legs.

Yep, and both of those gigs will have given him a more well rounded view of being a football manager.

But (and I'm being provocative) I'm not sure 3 stints of management at championship level qualifies you to be a DoF at the biggest league in the world.

Its like getting a job on the Apple board after working in one of the shops!

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 27 Mar 23 4.30pm
Nobody can tell me that we paid too much for Edouard. I just won't have it. Can we get a refund on the tribunal fee for Ferguson? We need Birmingham to pay us. We're in negative equity. As for Mateta - he's priceless, in other words there is no price on him, it's zero. The good deal we got was Olise due to release clause. He's off in the summer and Textor will give us a rebate on some loans as he gives him to his French side. The rest we paid over the odds. Some not too badly over - others worse. It's basically the Premier League way. The wages we pay are worse than the transfer fees anyway. Maybe Dougie or Steve take a cut, who knows. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 27 Mar 23 4.30pm

Nobody can tell me that we paid too much for Edouard. I just won't have it. Can we get a refund on the tribunal fee for Ferguson? We need Birmingham to pay us. We're in negative equity.
As for Mateta - he's priceless, in other words there is no price on him, it's zero.
The good deal we got was Olise due to release clause. He's off in the summer and Textor will give us a rebate on some loans as he gives him to his French side.
The rest we paid over the odds. Some not too badly over - others worse. It's basically the Premier League way.
The wages we pay are worse than the transfer fees anyway. Maybe Dougie or Steve take a cut, who knows.

Red and Blue Army!

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Mar 23 4.54pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Nobody can tell me that we paid too much for Edouard. I just won't have it. Can we get a refund on the tribunal fee for Ferguson? We need Birmingham to pay us. We're in negative equity. As for Mateta - he's priceless, in other words there is no price on him, it's zero. The good deal we got was Olise due to release clause. He's off in the summer and Textor will give us a rebate on some loans as he gives him to his French side. The rest we paid over the odds. Some not too badly over - others worse. It's basically the Premier League way. The wages we pay are worse than the transfer fees anyway. Maybe Dougie or Steve take a cut, who knows. Ferguson was signed from WBA, not Birmingham.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Mar 23 4.54pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Nobody can tell me that we paid too much for Edouard. I just won't have it. Can we get a refund on the tribunal fee for Ferguson? We need Birmingham to pay us. We're in negative equity.
As for Mateta - he's priceless, in other words there is no price on him, it's zero.
The good deal we got was Olise due to release clause. He's off in the summer and Textor will give us a rebate on some loans as he gives him to his French side.
The rest we paid over the odds. Some not too badly over - others worse. It's basically the Premier League way.
The wages we pay are worse than the transfer fees anyway. Maybe Dougie or Steve take a cut, who knows.

Ferguson was signed from WBA, not Birmingham.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 27 Mar 23 5.00pm
Originally posted by Willo Ferguson was signed from WBA, not Birmingham. I believe ASCPFC was referring to the poaching of Steve Bruce and Clinton Morrison regardless of any Andrew Johnsons coming our way! Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 27 Mar 23 5.00pm

Originally posted by Willo

Ferguson was signed from WBA, not Birmingham.

I believe ASCPFC was referring to the poaching of Steve Bruce and Clinton Morrison regardless of any Andrew Johnsons coming our way!

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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Crystal_Clear Belfast 27 Mar 23 5.34pm
We have made good signings as well as bad. Problem is, as always, money. Finance just hasnt been forthcoming as much as other clubs in the lower half of the PL. This is the reason we have kept on aging players such as Ward, Clyne, Tompkins, Milovojovic, Ayew etc. The cost of replacing them with better players would cost alot. With exception of a couple of windows, we have spent relatively little in PL terms, and unfortunately our scouting is nowhere as good as Brighton or Brentford to compensate. We need to hope that the academy starts paying dividends, but they need to be given a chance first (which they rarely are). If Textor were to takeover that might change, but it could also bring other problems. Whilst Parish retains control of the footballing aspect, then this won't change.
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Crystal_Clear

Belfast 27 Mar 23 5.34pm

We have made good signings as well as bad.

Problem is, as always, money. Finance just hasnt been forthcoming as much as other clubs in the lower half of the PL.

This is the reason we have kept on aging players such as Ward, Clyne, Tompkins, Milovojovic, Ayew etc. The cost of replacing them with better players would cost alot.

With exception of a couple of windows, we have spent relatively little in PL terms, and unfortunately our scouting is nowhere as good as Brighton or Brentford to compensate. We need to hope that the academy starts paying dividends, but they need to be given a chance first (which they rarely are).

If Textor were to takeover that might change, but it could also bring other problems. Whilst Parish retains control of the footballing aspect, then this won't change.

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Joseph Paxton Lancing 27 Mar 23 11.29pm
If you don't understand South London Proud, if you don't quite get where Zaha blossomed from...if grassroots football club sounds too 'Good Life' for you...if community and academy are merely abstract resources to turn a quick profit, then why not carry on decrying Dougie and Parish and that developing, authentic ethos of the club that should be fostered. Yes we should cast our net far and wide but only for those who can invest in taht ethos. I don't deny we have been sold some lame thoroughbreds in recent years but coaching instability and strategy (lack of) is prime demerit in last few seasons for me - hence we are back to Roy as a square 1 type solution. Expedient rather than innovative but I don't think back to what you know is necessarily retrograde. Coaching, culture, spirit and finding talent too. Be where you are; otherwise you will miss your life.
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Joseph Paxton

Lancing 27 Mar 23 11.29pm

If you don't understand South London Proud, if you don't quite get where Zaha blossomed from...if grassroots football club sounds too 'Good Life' for you...if community and academy are merely abstract resources to turn a quick profit, then why not carry on decrying Dougie and Parish and that developing, authentic ethos of the club that should be fostered. Yes we should cast our net far and wide but only for those who can invest in taht ethos.

I don't deny we have been sold some lame thoroughbreds in recent years but coaching instability and strategy (lack of) is prime demerit in last few seasons for me - hence we are back to Roy as a square 1 type solution. Expedient rather than innovative but I don't think back to what you know is necessarily retrograde.
Coaching, culture, spirit and finding talent too.

Be where you are; otherwise you will miss your life.

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