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May 1 2024 9.57am

AI is coming for us

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View Dubai Eagle's Profile Dubai Eagle Flag 01 Jun 23 5.38am Send a Private Message to Dubai Eagle Add Dubai Eagle as a friend

Driving a train is well on the way towards being a job that people used to do, striking unions is only accelerating the process.

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

150 years ago, a large grain farm would employ enormous numbers of people at Harvest time. Now all replaced with a machine, a lorry and a computer.


next, the information workers, fighter pilots, Language translators & teachers....and a whole tranche of other workers.....all to be onto the slagheap of history.

Artificial Intelligence to do our work ? how about creating 'Artificial Stupidity' to watch all the light-entertainment programmes & HipHop videos ?

 

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 01 Jun 23 11.04am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

i believe the Trains in Japan are already very far down that track ? AI drivers.

could we flip the Thread upside down...... what jobs will survive the onslaught of AI ?

- plumbers
- carpenters

- Politicians


I reckon AI could do a statistical analysis of a football match and have insights better than even Brian Clough. If it could beat us at Chess 30 years ago....it could surely beat many Football managers.
it would Take note of all the times Luka loses the ball or makes a gammy pass.

 


Eze Peasy at Anfield....

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 01 Jun 23 11.25am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

i believe the Trains in Japan are already very far down that track ? AI drivers.

could we flip the Thread upside down...... what jobs will survive the onslaught of AI ?

- plumbers
- carpenters

- Politicians


I reckon AI could do a statistical analysis of a football match and have insights better than even Brian Clough. If it could beat us at Chess 30 years ago....it could surely beat many Football managers.
it would Take note of all the times Luka loses the ball or makes a gammy pass.

Funeral Directors? Healthcare workers and the most obvious one

Politicians (they wont vote themselves out of a job).

 


One more point

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 01 Jun 23 1.24pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Funeral Directors? Healthcare workers and the most obvious one

Politicians (they wont vote themselves out of a job).

The rather scary aspect Badger is that the physical aspects that might make us think that 'hands on' jobs like healthcare involve are mainly a robotics and comprehension issue as while it's a high initial cost there are no wages and only maintenance.

Considering the pace of AI development....and there is massive amounts of money going onto that....those limiting aspects and jobs are probably on a generational timer as well.....Unless there is a roadblock I give them 15 to 30 years at most.

I should think that their first implementation will be within state and large corporation jobs and maybe it'll take quite a while before it filters down into the everyday outside of what you buy like cars and such......probably the first really successful product outside of self driving cars will be sex dolls.

The future is automated....if humanity can manage to get there without blowing itself up that is.

The wealthy parts of humanity of course....a huge chuck of humanity outside of developed countries will be slow trickle down.

Automation bringing huge dangers and its own problems as well as benefits.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Jun 2023 1.38pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 01 Jun 23 2.06pm Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Being somewhat elderly, I prefer the older version of AI where all that was required was a nail on the back of the stable door for the vet to hang his trousers on...

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 01 Jun 23 2.19pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by becky

Being somewhat elderly, I prefer the older version of AI where all that was required was a nail on the back of the stable door for the vet to hang his trousers on...

Anal Intelligence?

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 01 Jun 23 2.26pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Knowing a reasonable bit about this area

AI is a very real issue, not just because of one scenario, but because there are so many potential scenarios and areas of life where it will have both a positive and negative impact.

ChatGPT has helped make this more of a layman's issue now, but it's not like it's suddenly happened overnight.

AI is used today, in thousands of practical applications. People just aren't aware of it. It's a creeping influence that is creating dependancies that once activated are very hard to wind back, without serious consequences.

For example it's used extensively by credit card companies to help determine if someone is a higher or a lower credit risk, often coming up with models that can provide surprising answers, such as you're less likely to be a risk if you play tennis. This is a real example, btw, and that was five years ago. It's also been used heavily in the accountancy business for years... if you're early in that field or thinking about making it a career working for the bigger firms, I'd suggest re-evaluating that choice.

On a general level, some of the main issues before you even get into the benign vs. threat scenarios are

• Creeping automation leading to slow burn mass unemployment
• Mass unemployment leading to resentment, pushback, clashes etc
• First mover advantage – the race isn't really about improvement for society, it's about absolute power and wealth. Crack AI and you are potentially unchallengeable
• It isn't just Google and Open AI. It's a global competition – China could win. What friction would that then create?
• Lack of effective global oversight or regulation
• Rapidly developing skills gap – people who can use it effectively to augment their jobs vs those that can't (already happening in accountancy)
• Bias, both in development decisions and datasets
• Over-dependence – losing socially valuable/critical skills as we transition to more and more AI automation
• Various economic scenarios where someone decides that it should run the markets leading to unintended negative consequences eg. systems collapse

There are way more but you get the idea. Basically I find it endlessly amusing that these people talk about planning, regulating and controlling something that will end up thousands of times more intelligent and faster learning/improving than them, at which point even the best laid plans will immediately become useless.

As for benign vs threat, assuming we reach AGI and then the Singularity the terminator scenario is a red herring. There are several far more worrying (and higher risk) negative outcomes, such as

Giving the AI the wrong goals, or it deciding to set its own, leading to unintended negative consequences
Not being aware when we reach AGI, allowing it to hide itself and improve, finding out when its too late etc
The runaway / intelligence explosion scenario – that it eventually gets to a point where it's intelligent enough to work out how to self improve, rapidly
That we are simply unable to communicate with it or comprehend it, and it us. The oft cited example would be the human / ant relationship
The fact that even if it is benign, it might be set a goals that sound beneficial but actually end up dystopian, eg. 'world peace' might involve it coming up with controls and ways to prevent conflict which could lead to social restriction or more simply social collapse, depending on what it's interpretation of 'peace' and 'conflict' might be


And so on... A lot of these are way more likely than the reaching out into the physical world / terminator scenario.

I highly recommend reading these two books on the subject. One is more accessible, the other harder to get through but both leave you with a very rounded idea of the benefits/negatives/likely paths and explain the above way better than I ever could.

Easier read – [Link]
Harder read – [Link]

Edited by SW19 CPFC (01 Jun 2023 2.29pm)

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 01 Jun 23 3.01pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The rather scary aspect Badger is that the physical aspects that might make us think that 'hands on' jobs like healthcare involve are mainly a robotics and comprehension issue as while it's a high initial cost there are no wages and only maintenance.

Considering the pace of AI development....and there is massive amounts of money going onto that....those limiting aspects and jobs are probably on a generational timer as well.....Unless there is a roadblock I give them 15 to 30 years at most.

I should think that their first implementation will be within state and large corporation jobs and maybe it'll take quite a while before it filters down into the everyday outside of what you buy like cars and such......probably the first really successful product outside of self driving cars will be sex dolls.

The future is automated....if humanity can manage to get there without blowing itself up that is.

The wealthy parts of humanity of course....a huge chuck of humanity outside of developed countries will be slow trickle down.

Automation bringing huge dangers and its own problems as well as benefits.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Jun 2023 1.38pm)

Yup I can see that but the public sector is always way behind the private plus it is unionised so any progress will be slower that's why i think healthcare as a sector still has a future e.g. doctors or nurses.

However there are plenty of unskilled jobs in the NHS and social care that are at risk for example moving a patient. I can see a robotic porter in the not too distant future.

Edited by Badger11 (01 Jun 2023 3.02pm)

 


One more point

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 01 Jun 23 3.12pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

here is an idea.....

the more sophisticated the Financial system....the more volatile.

The derivatives markets have been implicated in previous crashes.

Ancient Rome had low inflation and few surprises....mostly.

AI could create a Frankenstein-Terminator scenario in the financial markets.....leading to the Mother of all Crashes ?

 


Eze Peasy at Anfield....

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 01 Jun 23 3.19pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11


However there are plenty of unskilled jobs in the NHS and social care that are at risk for example moving a patient. I can see a robotic porter in the not too distant future.

Edited by Badger11 (01 Jun 2023 3.02pm)

the Porters at MayDay are all Eagles. You can enjoy a friendly discussion about Zaha & the transfer market as they wheel you from surgery.

a bleedin AI will be able to give me inflation forecasts for a sweeping midfielder who frowns a lot (seasonally adjusted and controlled for currency fluctuations with the Euro, and correlated to a time-sensitive risk assessment of the knees of Kevin DeBruyne ) .....to ten decimal places......not what i feckin want after an operation.

 


Eze Peasy at Anfield....

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 01 Jun 23 3.27pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Knowing a reasonable bit about this area

AI is a very real issue, not just because of one scenario, but because there are so many potential scenarios and areas of life where it will have both a positive and negative impact.

ChatGPT has helped make this more of a layman's issue now, but it's not like it's suddenly happened overnight.

AI is used today, in thousands of practical applications. People just aren't aware of it. It's a creeping influence that is creating dependancies that once activated are very hard to wind back, without serious consequences.

For example it's used extensively by credit card companies to help determine if someone is a higher or a lower credit risk, often coming up with models that can provide surprising answers, such as you're less likely to be a risk if you play tennis. This is a real example, btw, and that was five years ago. It's also been used heavily in the accountancy business for years... if you're early in that field or thinking about making it a career working for the bigger firms, I'd suggest re-evaluating that choice.

On a general level, some of the main issues before you even get into the benign vs. threat scenarios are

• Creeping automation leading to slow burn mass unemployment
• Mass unemployment leading to resentment, pushback, clashes etc
• First mover advantage – the race isn't really about improvement for society, it's about absolute power and wealth. Crack AI and you are potentially unchallengeable
• It isn't just Google and Open AI. It's a global competition – China could win. What friction would that then create?
• Lack of effective global oversight or regulation
• Rapidly developing skills gap – people who can use it effectively to augment their jobs vs those that can't (already happening in accountancy)
• Bias, both in development decisions and datasets
• Over-dependence – losing socially valuable/critical skills as we transition to more and more AI automation
• Various economic scenarios where someone decides that it should run the markets leading to unintended negative consequences eg. systems collapse

There are way more but you get the idea. Basically I find it endlessly amusing that these people talk about planning, regulating and controlling something that will end up thousands of times more intelligent and faster learning/improving than them, at which point even the best laid plans will immediately become useless.

As for benign vs threat, assuming we reach AGI and then the Singularity the terminator scenario is a red herring. There are several far more worrying (and higher risk) negative outcomes, such as

Giving the AI the wrong goals, or it deciding to set its own, leading to unintended negative consequences
Not being aware when we reach AGI, allowing it to hide itself and improve, finding out when its too late etc
The runaway / intelligence explosion scenario – that it eventually gets to a point where it's intelligent enough to work out how to self improve, rapidly
That we are simply unable to communicate with it or comprehend it, and it us. The oft cited example would be the human / ant relationship
The fact that even if it is benign, it might be set a goals that sound beneficial but actually end up dystopian, eg. 'world peace' might involve it coming up with controls and ways to prevent conflict which could lead to social restriction or more simply social collapse, depending on what it's interpretation of 'peace' and 'conflict' might be


And so on... A lot of these are way more likely than the reaching out into the physical world / terminator scenario.

I highly recommend reading these two books on the subject. One is more accessible, the other harder to get through but both leave you with a very rounded idea of the benefits/negatives/likely paths and explain the above way better than I ever could.

Easier read – [Link]
Harder read – [Link]

Edited by SW19 CPFC (01 Jun 2023 2.29pm)

A cool post, interesting and a little bit scary....Hal in Kurick's 2001 was scared at the end and now we are.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 01 Jun 23 3.31pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Yup I can see that but the public sector is always way behind the private plus it is unionised so any progress will be slower that's why i think healthcare as a sector still has a future e.g. doctors or nurses.

However there are plenty of unskilled jobs in the NHS and social care that are at risk for example moving a patient. I can see a robotic porter in the not too distant future.

Edited by Badger11 (01 Jun 2023 3.02pm)

Yep, what I'm saying is purely best guess on my part. I definitely agree with you that this will have multi tiers for some time....how long and how much? Who knows for sure.

It's weird you know....all of us here are like the old timers from our past age who watched the transition from horse and cart/coach to cars.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Jun 2023 3.32pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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