VAR and officials.

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Elpis In a pub 07 Nov 23 10.48am
Originally posted by stuckinbristol Having watched the highlights, something is worrying me. The ref gave the penalty, but after the fouled player had got back up and headed towards goal. If VAR had said no penalty how would the game of restarted, would the Sheffield player get the ball back with a free run at goal?? Free kick to defending side . The attacker would have been deemed to have simulated a foul And we still need a striker
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Elpis

In a pub 07 Nov 23 10.48am

Originally posted by stuckinbristol

Having watched the highlights, something is worrying me.

The ref gave the penalty, but after the fouled player had got back up and headed towards goal.

If VAR had said no penalty how would the game of restarted, would the Sheffield player get the ball back with a free run at goal??

Free kick to defending side . The attacker would have been deemed to have simulated a foul

And we still need a striker

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 07 Nov 23 10.54am
When VAR was introduced, my concerns were the same as articulated by Pochettino. And I think it's getting worse rather than better. It hasn't been helped by the way offside and handball are now interpreted. It would be interesting if the Premier League took a vote by the players/managers as to whether to continue with VAR or do away with it. My current perception is that the vote would be to discontinue. We would then be left with a situation in which there would be an acknowledgement from players, managers and the fans that referees do make on field mistakes. I think these would be more easily forgiven that those we are currently seeing with the VAR officials. Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 07 Nov 23 10.54am

When VAR was introduced, my concerns were the same as articulated by Pochettino. And I think it's getting worse rather than better.

It hasn't been helped by the way offside and handball are now interpreted.

It would be interesting if the Premier League took a vote by the players/managers as to whether to continue with VAR or do away with it. My current perception is that the vote would be to discontinue.

We would then be left with a situation in which there would be an acknowledgement from players, managers and the fans that referees do make on field mistakes. I think these would be more easily forgiven that those we are currently seeing with the VAR officials.

Old, Ungifted and White

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Badger11 Beckenham 07 Nov 23 11.10am
Originally posted by NEILLO When VAR was introduced, my concerns were the same as articulated by Pochettino. And I think it's getting worse rather than better. It hasn't been helped by the way offside and handball are now interpreted. It would be interesting if the Premier League took a vote by the players/managers as to whether to continue with VAR or do away with it. My current perception is that the vote would be to discontinue. We would then be left with a situation in which there would be an acknowledgement from players, managers and the fans that referees do make on field mistakes. I think these would be more easily forgiven that those we are currently seeing with the VAR officials. Until the decision goes against them. Klopp. Pepe et all are all smiles when it goes their way but prams and toys spring to mind when they feel robbed. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 07 Nov 23 11.10am

Originally posted by NEILLO

When VAR was introduced, my concerns were the same as articulated by Pochettino. And I think it's getting worse rather than better.

It hasn't been helped by the way offside and handball are now interpreted.

We would then be left with a situation in which there would be an acknowledgement from players, managers and the fans that referees do make on field mistakes. I think these would be more easily forgiven that those we are currently seeing with the VAR officials.

Until the decision goes against them. Klopp. Pepe et all are all smiles when it goes their way but prams and toys spring to mind when they feel robbed.

One more point

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Teddy Eagle Online 07 Nov 23 11.15am
Originally posted by Elpis I hate that idea . Would lead to poor decisions at the end of games when teams have run out of 'challenges '. Sounds like more chaos to me . I would go back to referee's actually refereeing the game ,linesmen flagging for offside and goals being goals when the ball is in the net and the ref ref indicates it is . VAR could still have its use ,when and only when the referee decides he needs help ,if he is not sure on something he can ask VAR for clarification . Not what we had last night at Spurs where VAR was basically refereeing the match . As Postor.....the Spurs manager said after , let the refs ref and lineman give offsides , we will take it on the chin if they make a mistake That's fair enough - it's only a suggestion but out of interest why should the decision making get worse just because a team had conceded two goals?
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Teddy Eagle Online

07 Nov 23 11.15am

Originally posted by Elpis

I hate that idea . Would lead to poor decisions at the end of games when teams have run out of 'challenges '. Sounds like more chaos to me .
I would go back to referee's actually refereeing the game ,linesmen flagging for offside and goals being goals when the ball is in the net and the ref ref indicates it is .

VAR could still have its use ,when and only when the referee decides he needs help ,if he is not sure on something he can ask VAR for clarification . Not what we had last night at Spurs where VAR was basically refereeing the match .
As Postor.....the Spurs manager said after , let the refs ref and lineman give offsides , we will take it on the chin if they make a mistake

That's fair enough - it's only a suggestion but out of interest why should the decision making get worse just because a team had conceded two goals?

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 07 Nov 23 11.17am
Originally posted by Badger11 Until the decision goes against them. Klopp. Pepe et all are all smiles when it goes their way but prams and toys spring to mind when they feel robbed. Agreed. I left key words out of my sentence ''We would then be left with a situation in which there would have to* be an acknowledgement from players, managers and the fans that referees do make on field mistakes. ''* Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 07 Nov 23 11.17am

Originally posted by Badger11

Until the decision goes against them. Klopp. Pepe et all are all smiles when it goes their way but prams and toys spring to mind when they feel robbed.

Agreed.

I left key words out of my sentence ''We would then be left with a situation in which there would have to be an acknowledgement from players, managers and the fans that referees do make on field mistakes. ''

Old, Ungifted and White

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Teddy Eagle Online 07 Nov 23 11.17am
Originally posted by Badger11 Until the decision goes against them. Klopp. Pepe et all are all smiles when it goes their way but prams and toys spring to mind when they feel robbed. Just like Ferguson's concept of timekeeping depending on whether Utd were winning or, God forbid, losing.
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Teddy Eagle Online

07 Nov 23 11.17am

Originally posted by Badger11

Until the decision goes against them. Klopp. Pepe et all are all smiles when it goes their way but prams and toys spring to mind when they feel robbed.

Just like Ferguson's concept of timekeeping depending on whether Utd were winning or, God forbid, losing.

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Elpis In a pub 07 Nov 23 3.50pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle That's fair enough - it's only a suggestion but out of interest why should the decision making get worse just because a team had conceded two goals? Not sure what your asking . But my point was if VAR is only used when refs decisions are challenged by teams it cant be used when the ref needs help making a correct one . My fundamental belief is that the ref controls the game and if we are going to continue to have VAR its only used when he asks for it to be used . And we still need a striker
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Elpis

In a pub 07 Nov 23 3.50pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

That's fair enough - it's only a suggestion but out of interest why should the decision making get worse just because a team had conceded two goals?

Not sure what your asking . But my point was if VAR is only used when refs decisions are challenged by teams it cant be used when the ref needs help making a correct one .

My fundamental belief is that the ref controls the game and if we are going to continue to have VAR its only used when he asks for it to be used .

And we still need a striker

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Putitout Oxford 07 Nov 23 4.39pm
The genie was out of the bottle when the Premier league was formed hand in hand with TV. Before that ref decisions were not the subject of any real analysis, once games were televised they were, and the problems started The problem being we start to look for perfection, we now look for fractions, in off side, balls out of play, what is a foul in the penalty box , hand balls in split second situations. Nothing is perfect, VAR will only begin to satisfy when the rules regarding these issues can be backed by even better technology than it presently is. The genie can’t be put back in though , because TV is still there, and decisions will still be analysed to death at the expense referees reputations, adding no real value to the game.
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Putitout

Oxford 07 Nov 23 4.39pm

The genie was out of the bottle when the Premier league was formed hand in hand with TV.
Before that ref decisions were not the subject of any real analysis, once games were televised they were, and the problems started
The problem being we start to look for perfection, we now look for fractions, in off side, balls out of play, what is a foul in the penalty box , hand balls in split second situations. Nothing is perfect, VAR will only begin to satisfy when the rules regarding these issues can be backed by even better technology than it presently is.
The genie can’t be put back in though , because TV is still there, and decisions will still be analysed to death at the expense referees reputations, adding no real value to the game.

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rob1969 Banstead Surrey 07 Nov 23 4.46pm
Originally posted by Willo Howard Webb is a supporter of Rotherham. That probably wouldn't get him wined and dined though !
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rob1969

Banstead Surrey 07 Nov 23 4.46pm

Originally posted by Willo

Howard Webb is a supporter of Rotherham.

That probably wouldn't get him wined and dined though !

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Teddy Eagle Online 07 Nov 23 4.46pm
Originally posted by Elpis Not sure what your asking . But my point was if VAR is only used when refs decisions are challenged by teams it cant be used when the ref needs help making a correct one . My fundamental belief is that the ref controls the game and if we are going to continue to have VAR its only used when he asks for it to be used . I was asking because you said it Would lead to poor decisions at the end of games when teams have run out of 'challenges '. If the challenges were upheld they'd still be available. It works pretty well in cricket for wrong L.B.W. and caught behind decisions.
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Teddy Eagle Online

07 Nov 23 4.46pm

Originally posted by Elpis

Not sure what your asking . But my point was if VAR is only used when refs decisions are challenged by teams it cant be used when the ref needs help making a correct one .

My fundamental belief is that the ref controls the game and if we are going to continue to have VAR its only used when he asks for it to be used .

I was asking because you said it Would lead to poor decisions at the end of games when teams have run out of 'challenges '.
If the challenges were upheld they'd still be available. It works pretty well in cricket for wrong L.B.W. and caught behind decisions.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 07 Nov 23 4.49pm
Originally posted by Putitout The genie was out of the bottle when the Premier league was formed hand in hand with TV. Before that ref decisions were not the subject of any real analysis, once games were televised they were, and the problems started The problem being we start to look for perfection, we now look for fractions, in off side, balls out of play, what is a foul in the penalty box , hand balls in split second situations. Nothing is perfect, VAR will only begin to satisfy when the rules regarding these issues can be backed by even better technology than it presently is. The genie can’t be put back in though , because TV is still there, and decisions will still be analysed to death at the expense referees reputations, adding no real value to the game. I heard some chap assert that the VAR system was introduced as a 'Safety Net' for officials but that it has added 'Net Zero' value to the game.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 07 Nov 23 4.49pm

Originally posted by Putitout

The genie was out of the bottle when the Premier league was formed hand in hand with TV.
Before that ref decisions were not the subject of any real analysis, once games were televised they were, and the problems started
The problem being we start to look for perfection, we now look for fractions, in off side, balls out of play, what is a foul in the penalty box , hand balls in split second situations. Nothing is perfect, VAR will only begin to satisfy when the rules regarding these issues can be backed by even better technology than it presently is.
The genie can’t be put back in though , because TV is still there, and decisions will still be analysed to death at the expense referees reputations, adding no real value to the game.

I heard some chap assert that the VAR system was introduced as a 'Safety Net' for officials but that it has added 'Net Zero' value to the game.

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eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 07 Nov 23 4.49pm
Originally posted by Putitout The genie was out of the bottle when the Premier league was formed hand in hand with TV. Before that ref decisions were not the subject of any real analysis, once games were televised they were, and the problems started The problem being we start to look for perfection, we now look for fractions, in off side, balls out of play, what is a foul in the penalty box , hand balls in split second situations. Nothing is perfect, VAR will only begin to satisfy when the rules regarding these issues can be backed by even better technology than it presently is. The genie can’t be put back in though , because TV is still there, and decisions will still be analysed to death at the expense referees reputations, adding no real value to the game. Great analysis. Wasn't it TV, Pundits, Managers, FANS & finally players who ALL wanted this, look where we are, mayhem, distrust, & enjoyment out the window I'm a blind man, i'm a blind man, now my room is cold, When a blind man cries, Lord, he feels it from his soul. [Link]
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eagleman13

On The Road To Hell & Alicante 07 Nov 23 4.49pm

Originally posted by Putitout

Great analysis.
Wasn't it TV, Pundits, Managers, FANS & finally players who ALL wanted this, look where we are, mayhem, distrust, & enjoyment out the window

I'm a blind man, i'm a blind man, now my room is cold,
When a blind man cries, Lord, he feels it from his soul.
[Link]

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