Alexi Navalny -dead.
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 Stirlingsays  16 Feb 24 9.13pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
I know. Imagine the pressure being ramped up now. Putin must be insane to have the man killed. People don't really understand just how dire the financial situation is in Ukraine. The fifty billion the EU just gave to them is for over four years...it's not a lump sum and it's just to run their state. However, that is far less than half what they really need to pay teachers and keep the lights on so to speak. In terms of military aid, the House has just rejected the 60 billion aid bill and is now away from business till the end of the month I think. Even if they pass that bill I doubt they will get the supplies they need for weeks. The Americans are using the delay in military funding as an excuse for Ukraine losing....and there is no doubt that the lack of funding Ukraine's fight is ensuring that they lose faster. However, Ukraine lost three cities before this over two years without any breaks in funding. So in reality what is happening is an increase in speed of collapse. I would put the likelihood of Congress passing that funding at 70/30 against unless the Democrats move significantly on the US border. Ukraine are literally days away from losing the city of Avdiivka and that might have repercussions within the Ukrainian army and a lot of finger pointing is going to happen. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Feb 2024 9.13pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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 eaglesdare 16 Feb 24 11.37pm |
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The US government can solve a murder mystery in a Russian prison, but has no answers about a high profile prisoner, in a US Federal prison, committing suicide while in protective custody......
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| snytaxx London 17 Feb 24 12.02am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Normally I ignore you but as this is about someone's death so here I won't let you put out this statement without reply. You come on here and present claims from Ukraine as facts and then smear someone who died in Ukrainian captivity because you didn't like their personality. Sorry but you don't get to present claims as facts. He was a journalist and the how and the why and circumstances of why he died is....as with this Russian...purely reliant upon information coming from the authority responsible for his safety. There is an obvious conflict of interest with both of them and questions and criticisms in both circumstances are valid. You however are.......Well, I'll let others judge. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Feb 2024 7.38pm) Not even remotely true and alot of hypocracy here. Lira was well known grifter. He wrote a book which flopped in the 90s. Turned up in the naughties as a 'film director'. That flopped. He then moved on to giving financial advise as a blogger. This is about as close to 'journalism' as you could argue he ever got before the drift right into the manophere. He rebranded himself 'coach red bill'and moved to Ukraine. Here is his Patreon channel which even still holds the name where he used to beg for money. At this point he was in his 50's coming out with lines such as: "Women over 30 are ruined" Some real Andrew Tate stuff He then journied through the typical anti vax and 'Russia wont invade' malarky. Then became an apologist / 5th columnist when they did. You claim I accept whatever Ukraine says 'verbatim' even thought 1. I dont and 2. you seem to do the exact same for pro Russian propaganda points consistenly touting Mr. Lira's journalistic credentials and information despite it all being dubious at best. Ukraine arrested Lira for violating the countries criminal code Article 436-2 of Ukraine’s Criminal Code — justifying Russian aggression against Ukraine. Thats what Ukraine said the reason was for arresting him. Here is Lira doing just that. [Tweet Link]
Not to mention passing off Russian war crimes as Ukrainian ones And for good measure, live streaming the positions of Ukrainian military assets to his pro russian audience. Did you want me to also show you the antisemitism or have you had enough? So yes, I do get to cast considerable doubt onto the narrative that Lira was 'murdered' given the reasons for doing so are significantly less worth it and the evidence that he was flimsy at best vs a guy who was literally poisoned in broad day light (first attempt at his life) and could act as a closest thing to opposition Putin actually had. That is what makes this a false equivalent as previously stated. The fact you choose to compare these two as remotely equal is really what people should judge. Edited by snytaxx (17 Feb 2024 12.10am)
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| Stirlingsays 17 Feb 24 3.46am |
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Originally posted by snytaxx
Not even remotely true and alot of hypocracy here. Lira was well known grifter. He wrote a book which flopped in the 90s. Turned up in the naughties as a 'film director'. That flopped. He then moved on to giving financial advise as a blogger. This is about as close to 'journalism' as you could argue he ever got before the drift right into the manophere. He rebranded himself 'coach red bill'and moved to Ukraine. Here is his Patreon channel which even still holds the name where he used to beg for money. At this point he was in his 50's coming out with lines such as: "Women over 30 are ruined" Some real Andrew Tate stuff He then journied through the typical anti vax and 'Russia wont invade' malarky. Then became an apologist / 5th columnist when they did. You claim I accept whatever Ukraine says 'verbatim' even thought 1. I dont and 2. you seem to do the exact same for pro Russian propaganda points consistenly touting Mr. Lira's journalistic credentials and information despite it all being dubious at best. Ukraine arrested Lira for violating the countries criminal code Article 436-2 of Ukraine’s Criminal Code — justifying Russian aggression against Ukraine. Thats what Ukraine said the reason was for arresting him. Here is Lira doing just that. [Tweet Link]
Not to mention passing off Russian war crimes as Ukrainian ones And for good measure, live streaming the positions of Ukrainian military assets to his pro russian audience. Did you want me to also show you the antisemitism or have you had enough? So yes, I do get to cast considerable doubt onto the narrative that Lira was 'murdered' given the reasons for doing so are significantly less worth it and the evidence that he was flimsy at best vs a guy who was literally poisoned in broad day light (first attempt at his life) and could act as a closest thing to opposition Putin actually had. That is what makes this a false equivalent as previously stated. The fact you choose to compare these two as remotely equal is really what people should judge. Edited by snytaxx (17 Feb 2024 12.10am)
Once again here...and as I previously stated, you present reasons why you don't like Lira's personality. I find that irrelevant to what happened to him. He didn't deserve to die. None of that has any relevance to the fact he died in Ukrainian captivity. You don't address the claims made by himself and his father on the torture and financial extortion while there but instead accept as fact Ukraine's claims....when you have no way of knowing either way. I watched some Lira videos before he died. People can do the same if they wish. That will prove the fact that he was an opinion journalist of that war. People can argue about the definition of journalist if they wish but he does fit a definition for me and people can make their own mind up. People can speculate that doing a hit job on someone like this to justify not liking them and thus presenting the idea that what happened to them was unimportant could be seen as rather tactless. Now moving onto Navalny. I don't regard this man's politics as migrating reasons for not caring that he's died in Russian captivity. I find no reason to believe Russia and all the reasons you give for accepting an innocent demise of Lira falls under the same unknowable category. As you spent rather a lot of time slagging off Lira because of...in some ways I'd agree...his questionable behaviour I'll do the same for Navalny. Not for the same purpose that you did....to suggest that someone holding controversial views doesn't matter when captive but for the reason that he also...at one point as a prominent activist...held views quite more controversial than Lira. Before 2012 Navalny was a Russian nationalist who regularly attended what you'd regard as extreme marches and it's reported that he wanted to strip Chechens, Dargins, and all other nations in the Caucasus of their Russian citizenship and compared them to cockroaches and flies and he held strong anti Islamic and immigration views. The behaviour of the marches he attended and helped organise is on video....I'll attach a video of this below. Why he changed to the rainbow loving western pipedream?....I don't know, CIA money maybe, that's not important. He didn't deserve to die and Russia were responsible for his safety. To me it makes no difference what their political opinions are. When the mainstream media crafts a message that presents a 'goodies and baddies' choice between regimes I am sufficiently interested to look. Ukraine and Russia can be what they are, however as we are being asked to believe narratives and pay tens of billions to one side and possibly enter a war against Russia I feel more objectivity on claims is a valid pursuit. You make great play of saying there is a false equivalence between these men's deaths. I on the other hand see that they were both single men held by regimes punishing them. They are both dead and unlike you I criticise both regimes for this. One man's death was ignored by mainstream western media, despite his captivity and lack of American action (he held an American passport) and his treatment having been raised at the Biden press briefing room by a journalist and his cause being raised by, booted out of the mainstream' journalists like Tucker Carlson....probably the single most popular journalist in the world. I suspect that what happened to both these men was wrong. However, one man's death is ignored by the mainstream and the other man's death is spread far and wide across media outlets across the world. People can draw their own conclusions.
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Attachment: Forest Hillbilly  in a hidey-hole 17 Feb 24 4.19am |
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Originally posted by eaglesdare
The US government can solve a murder mystery in a Russian prison, but has no answers about a high profile prisoner, in a US Federal prison, committing suicide while in protective custody...... Quite, ^^^
"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak |
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| Stirlingsays 17 Feb 24 5.11am |
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[Tweet Link]
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| Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 17 Feb 24 8.28am |
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Assange and Alexi Navalny were in prison to try and break them.
"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak |
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| Stirlingsays 17 Feb 24 8.50am |
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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly
Assange and Alexi Navalny were in prison to try and break them. Indeed. I have little doubt that US intelligence have discussed killing Assange. At the moment they are ensuring a living death.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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HKOwen  Hong Kong 17 Feb 24 9.48am |
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Originally posted by eaglesdare
The US government can solve a murder mystery in a Russian prison, but has no answers about a high profile prisoner, in a US Federal prison, committing suicide while in protective custody...... good point well made
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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| snytaxx London 17 Feb 24 10.02am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'll state once again, you present claims made by Ukraine as facts and yet accuse me of 'Russian propaganda'. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2024 5.21am) No, you are projecting. To stress once again, no I dont unless they come with actual evidence. In the case of Mr. Lira, everything posted is literally his work or opinion, i'm sorry if you don't like that. I guess never meet your hero's as they say. I do also correctly accuse you of propagating Russian talking points because... you do. This thread is about Navalny, yet the first thing you mention when commenting on this news is to bring up Mr. Lira despite them being false equivalents. How is this not defending Russia via Whatabout'ism? Furthermore, you then go into detail on other posts on 'how Ukraine is definitely going to lose' and now Julian Assange critiquing the west gets a mention and yet you accuse me of bring up irrelvant information. Indeed its taken a 'hit job' on your favourite 'journalist' to get you to even talk about the subject matter in question. Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Once again here...and as I previously stated, you present reasons why you don't like Lira's personality. I find that irrelevant to what happened to him. He didn't deserve to die. None of that has any relevance to the fact he died in Ukrainian captivity. You don't address the claims made by himself and his father on the torture and financial extortion while there but instead accept as fact Ukraine's claims....when you have no way of knowing either way. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2024 5.21am) I think you are missing the point, so I will simplify it. The claims about mistreatment in the case of Mr. Lira are just that, claims. It's possible the man was personally bumped off by Zelensky, it's also possible that given Coach Red Pill lived in some pretty squalid conditions prior to his arrest and was not in good health that he died of natural causes. We just don't know. What we do know is Navalny had been targetted for assasination in the past, its possible that he did just keel over and die? Yes, but we actually have some hard evidence of a motive and prior agression other that conjecture and hearsay which befalls the alledged mistreatment of Lira. They are also different in terms of motives, reasons and value in having them both bumped off. That is why they are false equivalents. Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I watched some Lira videos before he died. People can do the same if they wish. That will prove the fact that he was an opinion journalist of that war. People can argue about the definition of journalist if they wish but he does fit a definition for me and people can make their own mind up. People can speculate that doing a hit job on someone like this to justify not liking them and thus presenting the idea that what happened to them was unimportant could be seen as rather tactless. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2024 5.21am) Allow me to link a highlight reel. My favourite part is where he tells someone who doesn't agree with him to 'die painfully'. The true art of journalism right there. Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Now moving onto Navalny. I don't regard this man's politics as migrating reasons for not caring that he's died in Russian captivity. I find no reason to believe Russia and all the reasons you give for accepting an innocent demise of Lira falls under the same unknowable category. As you spent rather a lot of time slagging off Lira because of...in some ways I'd agree...his questionable behaviour I'll do the same for Navalny. Not for the same purpose that you did....to suggest that someone holding controversial views doesn't matter when captive but for the reason that he also...at one point as a prominent activist...held views quite more controversial than Lira. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2024 5.21am) Again, you've missed the point while on damage control with Coach Red Pill's pretty disturbing history. Navalny was put in prison for contempt of court and embezzlement and charged prior to Russian's open invasion of Ukraine. Some of his 'crimes' even took place while he was in a coma after having been poisoned by the Russians back in 2020. I continually question the relevance of bringing up Lira given that as previously stated, they have significantly different histories and motives / benefits for wanted them bumped off. That is why they are false equivalents. Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Before 2012 Navalny was a Russian nationalist who regularly attended what you'd regard as extreme marches and it's reported that he wanted to strip Chechens, Dargins, and all other nations in the Caucasus of their Russian citizenship and compared them to cockroaches and flies and he held strong anti Islamic and immigration views. The behaviour of the marches he attended and helped organise is on video....I'll attach a video of this below.
Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2024 5.21am) Why is it when anyone is Eastern Europe changes their opinion to liking basic human rights as often readily available in the west, it always has to be the work of the CIA? Can't the man just have a natural change in heart? You used to be self pescribed 'neo con' once? Was it the FSB who finally 'saved' you? Did they pay you? Or did you come to this conclusion naturally? If you did, why does Navalny not get to make his own mind up independently? Originally posted by Stirlingsays
To me it makes no difference what their political opinions are. When the mainstream media crafts a message that presents a 'goodies and baddies' choice between regimes I am sufficiently interested to look. Ukraine and Russia can be what they are, however as we are being asked to believe narratives and pay tens of billions to one side and possibly enter a war against Russia I feel more objectivity on claims is a valid pursuit. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2024 5.21am)
Is it not possible that Russia's casus belli for attacking another soveriegn country is just wrong? Thus making it a rare case of wrong vs right? How did the Mainstream Media get involved? Did they make Putin give the order to attack? For all the claims of 'I make my own analysis', you seem to conveniently ignore the direction of travel of both of these countries even prior to 2014 and just accept Putin's narrative as pointed out in other posts. Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You make great play of saying there is a false equivalence between these men's deaths. I on the other hand see that they were both single men held by regimes punishing them. They are both dead and unlike you I criticise both regimes for this. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2024 5.21am)
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
One man's death was ignored by mainstream western media, despite his captivity and lack of American action (he held an American passport) and his treatment having been raised at the Biden press briefing room by a journalist and his cause being raised by, booted out of the mainstream' journalists like Tucker Carlson....probably the single most popular journalist in the world. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2024 5.21am) Yes, because aside from you and the patreon's at Coach Red Pill most people probably saw the guy as totally irrelevant, not a real journalist and alround nasty piece of work and probably didn't think any scoop showing the 'lies of the Zelensky regime' which his follow demanded via faux outrage would actually stand up to scrutiny actual journalism is supposed to entail. Hence why only fellow grifters like Tucker chose to take up his 'injustice'. Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I suspect that what happened to both these men was wrong. However, one man's death is ignored by the mainstream and the other man's death is spread far and wide across media outlets across the world. People can draw their own conclusions.
Yes, I look forward to you challenging the Russian narrative on this in the coming days given your neutral status in all of this. Have a good weekend.
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| Stirlingsays 17 Feb 24 12.00pm |
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I considered replying to this guy again but it becomes a pointless passive aggressive, 'yes it is, no it isn't' ego fest that never ends and frankly bores me: It's a merry-go-round. People can look at the different perspectives and see what they consider the most balanced position. So if anyone is curious and wants to ask me a question based on any of this I'll reply but other than that I'm good.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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PalazioVecchio  south pole 17 Feb 24 1.27pm |
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Originally posted by eaglesdare
The US government can solve a murder mystery in a Russian prison, but has no answers about a high profile prisoner, in a US Federal prison, committing suicide while in protective custody...... and the Brits never identified the bloke who stabbed the Christian Lady at Speaker's Corner. violence coming from a predictable source. In both the cases of Navalny and the preacher lady.
Eze Peasy at Anfield.... |
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