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April 14 2024 2.20am

Forest

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View CrazyBadger's Profile CrazyBadger Flag Ware 19 Mar 24 11.46am Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

You know, I have been as self righteous and self serving as the rest on here in condemning those who voted for rules and then broke them.

However, if only to be Devil's advocate, some balance.

Forest came up with a team worth £12M (I know!) and were expected to compete on equal terms with teams worth £billions. It just isn't fair. They sought to "stretch" the rules to stand a chance; and they only just scraped it. And now, the vested interests who profit from this unfairness are punishing them for their nerve of seeking to eat at the High Table and are sending them back to the lower, impoverished obscurity where they belong.

As an aside, makes you proud to be Palace. Sustainable and rule compliant, we should be heading into our 12th season. That said, the gap is now much bigger than 11 years ago. I am pretty sure we would not have survived.

No-one can expect to compete On equal terms when promoted to the Prem, and the do not. Look at the 3 promoted teams this year; Luton and Sheffield haven't gone Out and spent the world, Burnley have spent more(I think) but apparently not outside their means. 3 clubs which can be classed as 'small->medium' sized, who knew their limits, and accepted that unless you are a club that bounces straight back up, you have no chance of having the financial clout to compete, but still have a chance to stay in the division.
that's the Reality of promotion to the Prem; It's really hard to get up and stay up at the first attempt. A year or 4 of yo-yo-ing should be the expectation, building on each relegation and riches a year in the PL brings.
Forest went for it, spend spend spend (at a time that no one had ever really been punished for FFP offences) and they stayed in the division because of it. They knew they broke the rules, and are now moaning at the punishment.
I do not view it as unfair - it's just the reality.


 


"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 19 Mar 24 12.21pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Davepalace707

Weíre already there. Donít tell me Forest & Everton didnít know exactly what they were doing. Thatís why 4 or 6 point deductions arenít a deterrent. Automatic relegation or maybe a 20 point deduction would stop this.

Agreed and throw in a transfer ban for good measure

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 19 Mar 24 12.24pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

You know, I have been as self righteous and self serving as the rest on here in condemning those who voted for rules and then broke them.

However, if only to be Devil's advocate, some balance.

Forest came up with a team worth £12M (I know!) and were expected to compete on equal terms with teams worth £billions. It just isn't fair. They sought to "stretch" the rules to stand a chance; and they only just scraped it. And now, the vested interests who profit from this unfairness are punishing them for their nerve of seeking to eat at the High Table and are sending them back to the lower, impoverished obscurity where they belong.

As an aside, makes you proud to be Palace. Sustainable and rule compliant, we should be heading into our 12th season. That said, the gap is now much bigger than 11 years ago. I am pretty sure we would not have survived.

I take your point but they are continuing to overspend. Itís a two fingere salute to the PL from their owner imo
[Link]

 

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View Dubai Eagle's Profile Dubai Eagle Flag 19 Mar 24 1.49pm Send a Private Message to Dubai Eagle Add Dubai Eagle as a friend

The summary from the hearing makes an interesting read (even if it is 50 pages) from going through it I got the overall impression that Forest were fortunate in the ruling of a 4 points deduction because they knew they were going to be in breach of PSR & did nothing to improve their situation within deadlines that they were fully aware of & because all of their golden mitigation arguments were slapped down an appeal would likely be fruitless.

Originally posted by Spiderman

I take your point but they are continuing to overspend. Itís a two fingere salute to the PL from their owner imo
[Link]

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 19 Mar 24 1.58pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by Dubai Eagle

The summary from the hearing makes an interesting read (even if it is 50 pages) from going through it I got the overall impression that Forest were fortunate in the ruling of a 4 points deduction because they knew they were going to be in breach of PSR & did nothing to improve their situation within deadlines that they were fully aware of & because all of their golden mitigation arguments were slapped down an appeal would likely be fruitless.


They deliberately flouted the rules and stayed up as a result. Furthermore, as is stated elsewhere, by keeping Johnson till the end of the window, Forest benefited from having him for some league games this season.

IMO, therefore, they got off lightly.

One way to deal with appeals is to adopt the PL approach to red card appeals, where the appeal is seen as spurious. If the club lose the appeal they should get docked an extra point or two.

Edited by doombear (19 Mar 2024 1.59pm)

Edited by doombear (19 Mar 2024 1.59pm)

 

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View blackheatheagle's Profile blackheatheagle Flag Beckenham 19 Mar 24 2.01pm Send a Private Message to blackheatheagle Add blackheatheagle as a friend

4-6 points deduction for FFP breach sounds like `Pay as you go`.

If prestige is not your priority, you would not give a toss for a penalty that you can get over with 2 games.

 

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View fish mitten's Profile fish mitten Flag Chelmsford 19 Mar 24 3.38pm Send a Private Message to fish mitten Add fish mitten as a friend

Whilst there is a part of me that is happy about the point deductions, as we benefit, there is another part which does not like FFP.

Despite them dressing it up as protecting clubs and their communities the real reason behind it is the self interests of the large clubs and protecting the status quo. They have already had Manchester City and Chelsea gate crash their party and what would happen if a Palace or Ipswich could outspend them and do the same.

Businesses often have to invest to grow, sometimes making massive losses, it is a strategy that can have many pitfalls and result in failure, but if that's what the owners choose to do then so be it. Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal just want to preserve their 'right' at the top of the pecking order and maintain a closed shop for their own greed.

Do I want us to spend like mad and risk everything, then the answer is no. However, should we be punished for trying to compete, then the answer is no as well

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Mar 24 4.07pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

At the moment, it isn't the biggest deal. However, when Man City get no punishment at all, how's it going to look? A fine for them and points deductions for everyone else is not going to wash either.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 19 Mar 24 4.23pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by fish mitten

Whilst there is a part of me that is happy about the point deductions, as we benefit, there is another part which does not like FFP.

Despite them dressing it up as protecting clubs and their communities the real reason behind it is the self interests of the large clubs and protecting the status quo. They have already had Manchester City and Chelsea gate crash their party and what would happen if a Palace or Ipswich could outspend them and do the same.

Businesses often have to invest to grow, sometimes making massive losses, it is a strategy that can have many pitfalls and result in failure, but if that's what the owners choose to do then so be it. Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal just want to preserve their 'right' at the top of the pecking order and maintain a closed shop for their own greed.

Do I want us to spend like mad and risk everything, then the answer is no. However, should we be punished for trying to compete, then the answer is no as well

You've more or less re-stated the point that John Textor made recently.

FFP benefits the ' big clubs ' because the smaller one's, even if they have investors/owners ready and willing to spend their own money, are constrained by the current rules.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 19 Mar 24 4.35pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by fish mitten

Whilst there is a part of me that is happy about the point deductions, as we benefit, there is another part which does not like FFP.

Despite them dressing it up as protecting clubs and their communities the real reason behind it is the self interests of the large clubs and protecting the status quo. They have already had Manchester City and Chelsea gate crash their party and what would happen if a Palace or Ipswich could outspend them and do the same.

Businesses often have to invest to grow, sometimes making massive losses, it is a strategy that can have many pitfalls and result in failure, but if that's what the owners choose to do then so be it. Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal just want to preserve their 'right' at the top of the pecking order and maintain a closed shop for their own greed.

Do I want us to spend like mad and risk everything, then the answer is no. However, should we be punished for trying to compete, then the answer is no as well

Very good post, for me anyway. I agree all round.

The whole thing does look a scapegoating exercise to kick lowly teams in the teeth, not that I'm complaining about that with our current position.

I also can't help but feel that football is after all a sport and it essentially says 'if you're commercial attraction strategy or results don't perform, we'll punish you further'.

The big boys won't complain, they've already cemented their status, but it essentially blocks anyone else from even mounting a challenge. The whole thing is the usual incompetent sh!t show from the FA et al in any instance and I'm not sure I buy into the narrative around it nor the supposed moral authority behind it's reasoning.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 19 Mar 24 7.50pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

At the moment, it isn't the biggest deal. However, when Man City get no punishment at all, how's it going to look? A fine for them and points deductions for everyone else is not going to wash either.

They have not been let off. The panel has yet to adjudicate.

Reckon about a year as there are 100s offences. However, I would be surprised if Man City stayed the dominant force after the decision is made. The new legislation could both give the FA teeth and ensure they don't bottle it/get turned by the vast £££.

BTW Man City are facing FFP charges. Everton and Forest are up against breach of accounting rules. Different regime.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Mar 24 8.25pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

They have not been let off. The panel has yet to adjudicate.

Reckon about a year as there are 100s offences. However, I would be surprised if Man City stayed the dominant force after the decision is made. The new legislation could both give the FA teeth and ensure they don't bottle it/get turned by the vast £££.

BTW Man City are facing FFP charges. Everton and Forest are up against breach of accounting rules. Different regime.

I really don't know the technicalities of the charges, not 100% sure anyone does but maybe it's out there. I just can imagine Man City getting something like having to put a load of money into grassroots football and enough said. I can't really predict what will happen - just guessing. I think a team relegated with a points deductions may feel a bit peeved. However, when considering what you say, I guess having titles stripped would be pretty nasty? Would people be happy with that? I'm guessing that would placate other teams.
Genuinely not sure how I feel about the deductions overall but I can say I'm not revelling in it. I don't particularly mind Forest but I don't particularly like Everton - but wish them no harm as it were.
The main thought in my mind about deductions is about thinking how we shouldn't anywhere near be relying on any of it - but here we are. There's still a nagging doubt in my mind about us, thinking I wish we had a bit more fight about us. We've been better with worse players, even including the bloody injuries. But those teams just seemed to have more guts. I don't find us that typical Palace gutsy/ scrapping for stuff this season. I'm not including particular players within this - more just an overall view of the current team.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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