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Creation vs. Evolution Debate

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View Bean's Profile Bean Flag Ipswich 10 Jan 05 10.38am Send a Private Message to Bean Add Bean as a friend

Quote A_JsShorts at 09 Jan 2005 7:36pm

This was Matts reply to my incest question :

You are getting into a whole new topic called Devolution. If natural selection is true, which i believe it is then each time we have kids, they lose genes from both parents.

This means that if there were ever two original humans which both evolutionists and creationists believe (otherwise we get into black's being lower down the evolutionary chain etc), then they must have had the genes for all races and creeds.

The more and more genes you lose down the generations, the worse it would be to have children with someone from the exact gene pool as you, because the child will lose genes without gaining any.

God does not allow incest anymore, that was stopped as soon as necessary, but for the first two humans who scientifically MUST have had more gene options, it was fine medically.


I know ive quoted Soph, but im replying to MattWebb

Very recently, there has been new evidence emerging to contradict the Adam and Eve story, which is that all humans originated from 12 tribes which were headed by women and located all over the world. These people came into existence from an evolution/survival of the fittest kind of thing, which is why we do not have 4 arms and 6 legs, because we infact are not a product of incest after all. Which is why so many people look different. Certain features can be directly attributed to certain tribes of origin, and this can all be determined by a genetic test, and some tribes are very rare but have very distinctive markings, for example, Asian women who have Green eyes are part of a particular group.

PS. I know you say that got is all powerful, but how can he have created himself, thats just illogical.

 


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View mattwebb's Profile mattwebb Flag Sutton 10 Jan 05 10.43am Send a Private Message to mattwebb Add mattwebb as a friend

Bean, you are missing the point. Look at dogs, the bottom of the dog gene pool is the poodle, we are like poodles.

We have lost all the recessive genes over time, and are losing information, that is why NOW it would be terrible to have incest.

Before this however, when there were only 4 humans alive, and they hadn't lost recessive genes over thousands of years of losing information during reproduction, it made no odds to have incest.

You talk about us all looking different being a problem, well not if you understand genetics.

Adam and Eve had all human genes, just like I probably have the genes for brown hair and blonde hair but one type is recessive.

Adam and Eve also had dark skin genes, red haired genes, but some are recessive and so different characteristics come to play when reproduction continues, and then natural selection decides which human types will survive best in any kind of environment.

 

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View Bean's Profile Bean Flag Ipswich 10 Jan 05 10.44am Send a Private Message to Bean Add Bean as a friend

Quote mattwebb at 10 Jan 2005 10:32am

Bean but if you are already a Christian you have already made that choice with your free will.

I don't understand your problem with the whole free will thing.

Everytime you make a choice you use your free will, and then that choice can sometimes restrict you in the future.

If I decide to get on a plane to Australia with my free will, I have restricted myself to only going to Australia.

I can't very well tell the pilot to turn round I've changed my mind and would rather a weekend in Scarbrough, can I?


ok, what i mean is that God and the Bible say for example, no sex before marriage, correct? therefore, by complying to Christianity and the beliefs to live by you have immediately taken away your ability to make that decision without bias, or outside influence because your main influence is your religion. Therefore your free will has got to be restricted becasue you are living by that code. If God had said I forbid all future travel in planes (obviously not said in that way) would you abide by it even though you really want to go to australia


Edited by Bean (10 Jan 2005 10:45am)

 


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View mattwebb's Profile mattwebb Flag Sutton 10 Jan 05 10.48am Send a Private Message to mattwebb Add mattwebb as a friend

I would obey God if I could, just like I'd hope my children would obey me, just like you would (i hope) obey the law.

This doesn't restrict your free will though, because it is still my choice to submit to any law.

My 3 year old son still has a free will, to think how he wants, but that doesn't mean he can live uncivilised with no rules.

I really can't see a problem with this.

 

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View Bean's Profile Bean Flag Ipswich 10 Jan 05 10.49am Send a Private Message to Bean Add Bean as a friend

Quote mattwebb at 10 Jan 2005 10:43am

Bean, you are missing the point. Look at dogs, the bottom of the dog gene pool is the poodle, we are like poodles.

We have lost all the recessive genes over time, and are losing information, that is why NOW it would be terrible to have incest.

Before this however, when there were only 4 humans alive, and they hadn't lost recessive genes over thousands of years of losing information during reproduction, it made no odds to have incest.

You talk about us all looking different being a problem, well not if you understand genetics.

Adam and Eve had all human genes, just like I probably have the genes for brown hair and blonde hair but one type is recessive.

Adam and Eve also had dark skin genes, red haired genes, but some are recessive and so different characteristics come to play when reproduction continues, and then natural selection decides which human types will survive best in any kind of environment.


I did not say that i had a problem with us all looking diferently so do not try to class me as some kind of rascist!

i am not missing the point at all and i do understand genetics but it does not wash with me that two people populated the entire planet. that is you opinion and this is mine, i just happen to think that mine is much more logical and fits in with my belief system

 


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View Bean's Profile Bean Flag Ipswich 10 Jan 05 10.57am Send a Private Message to Bean Add Bean as a friend

i think Matt that the problem here is that we all have very stong ideas about belief and what we should or shouldnt believe in.

You obviously believe so strongly in Christianity, God, Jesus etc, that you have lost your ability to look outside the box and see that other people can have opinions which may contradict yours but are just as valid. Before you say it, i do understand Christianity, and i do understand from what you and other people have said why you choose to believe and follow that way of life, but it is not for me and nothing you can say to me will make me change what i believe because i am very sure of myself and my opinions. i can make my own decisons, i do not rely on the teachings of invisible entities, i have a conscience, and i have been influenced by my parents and others who bought me up as to the correct ways of behaviour in a social context but these having nothing to to with religion.

i can live just as good a life as you do without having to be a Christian, i am happy and fulfilled. therre is no empty void in my life which needs to be filled

 


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View mattwebb's Profile mattwebb Flag Sutton 10 Jan 05 11.03am Send a Private Message to mattwebb Add mattwebb as a friend

Bean you demand me to respect your opinions, but all you do is mock mine, talking about invisible entities and say I can not think outside the box, and speak in a very condescending manner.

I find that very hypocritical.

Every single human being has a hole in their soul which can only be permanently satisfied by God.

You may think it is filled with something else, but really you are just burying the problem and post poning it.

One day, I assure you, you will feel extremely empty, and only one thing, God, can make you feel whole again, properly 100%.

 

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View Bean's Profile Bean Flag Ipswich 10 Jan 05 11.14am Send a Private Message to Bean Add Bean as a friend

Quote mattwebb at 10 Jan 2005 11:03am

Bean you demand me to respect your opinions, but all you do is mock mine, talking about invisible entities and say I can not think outside the box, and speak in a very condescending manner.

I find that very hypocritical.

Every single human being has a hole in their soul which can only be permanently satisfied by God.

You may think it is filled with something else, but really you are just burying the problem and post poning it.

One day, I assure you, you will feel extremely empty, and only one thing, God, can make you feel whole again, properly 100%.


Firstly, i do not demand you to respect my opinions, i just wish you can acknoledge that other people have other opinions to yours which are truths to them.

i am not mocking your beliefs, i can discussing them with you as you are with mine

You may believe that every single human being has a hole in their soul etc but i dont, and therefore it does not have any effect on me. God will never satisfy me as i have no belief in his existence and my opinions will not be swayed that easily as i am very sure of my beliefs, which i do not believe are a problem.

I take offence to your suggestion that my way of life and beliefs are in some way inferior to your Christian ones. As i said before, i have no empty void to fill and i do not feel the need to embrace God and have him in my life. The whole soul thing with God filling voids is a concept which only believeers would understand and fear. As i am not, i do not fear it and have no desire to embrce religious life

 


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View jcreedy's Profile jcreedy Flag 10 Jan 05 11.23am Send a Private Message to jcreedy Add jcreedy as a friend

Quote mattwebb at 10 Jan 2005 11:03am

Every single human being has a hole in their soul which can only be permanently satisfied by God.

You may think it is filled with something else, but really you are just burying the problem and post poning it.

One day, I assure you, you will feel extremely empty, and only one thing, God, can make you feel whole again, properly 100%.


It's insulting to think that your life is somehow better than ours because of your relationship with someone that is unlikely to exist.
My boss at a recent dinner declared that he was better than everybody else on the table because of his relationship with God. His comments were admittedly lightly tongue in cheek, but he offended most of the table. His attitude seems to be common amongst most of the strong minded christians that I've met. Seriously deluded.

Edited by jcreedy (10 Jan 2005 11:24am)

 


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View Bean's Profile Bean Flag Ipswich 10 Jan 05 11.25am Send a Private Message to Bean Add Bean as a friend

Totally agree James, well said

 


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View Singapore Eagle's Profile Singapore Eagle Flag ....back in London now 10 Jan 05 11.31am Send a Private Message to Singapore Eagle Add Singapore Eagle as a friend

Quote jcreedy at 10 Jan 2005 11:23am

It's insulting to think that your life is somehow better than ours because of your relationship with someone that is unlikely to exist.
My boss at a recent dinner declared that he was better than everybody else on the table because of his relationship with God. His comments were admittedly lightly tongue in cheek, but he offended most of the table. His attitude seems to be common amongst most of the strong minded christians that I've met. Seriously deluded.

Edited by jcreedy (10 Jan 2005 11:24am)


To be fair to Matt, I that that his point is that he feels that we would all benefit from having the same relationship with God that he does. I don't necessarily think that he is trying to belittle us, but trying to share his beliefs.

I think that he also accepts that we do not have to concur with him, but as I posted earlier, his attitude is no different from many other christians - they do believe that we are missing something!

Something is special in his life - he wants us to experience the same feeling.

As we have seen over the last 20 odd pages, it is very difficult to convert people on a message board - but Matt has his beliefs and he still keeps going.....I think that that deserves some credit!!


 

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View mattwebb's Profile mattwebb Flag Sutton 10 Jan 05 11.33am Send a Private Message to mattwebb Add mattwebb as a friend

But what if I am right? What if I have a relationship with the creator of the universe. I have no need to worry, because I know everything is in his hands.

I don't have to stress or worry, I don't need sleepless nights when money is tight, because I trust the Lord.

Surely life without ever stressing is better.

I look at my life before I was a Christian and since, and I am convinced that becoming a Christian has made my life better.

I also do not fear death anymore, I see my life has a purpose, I believe that I am loved by God, and being close to God makes me feel incredibly happy and at peace.

I am not judging anyone, don't be so easily offended. I am just saying what I believe. I really believe that everyone has a hole, like a hunger for God, but they try to fill it with other things, like money, fame, sex, friends, drink, drugs and they are never truly satisfied.

 

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