At the end of the day no-one here is going to change what they believe and I wouldn't want anyone too, this is about listening to each others opinions and understanding and respecting what other people believe.

Being a non christian, I myself and speak for many many more have 'ignored' God and have not done too bad so far.

Not really wanting to bring politics into this, but I will mention it once only, the most powerful leader in the world has done a fantistic job at fcuking up - and guess what, he's a christain.

And when have I mentioned and picked at other beliefs? I don't recall it please remind me.

I am not going to sit here and prove evolution to you as I am noehter a scientist nor physitian, but I ask you the same question about creation.

If there were two people left on this planet you are telling me they would be able to re-create and repopulate the earth?

If you haven't had evolution scientifically proven beyond doubt to you personally, then surely you are excercising just as much faith believing evolution as i am by believing creation.

Just because science has a theory, evolution actually contradicts natural selection (they are not the same as is commonly a mistaken belief, and many others contradict, but just because some scientists believe something by making loads of assumptions to get there, does not mean it is true.

I can't prove creation to you, except by asking you to witness birth, and then explaining to me what is it that gives that baby the life inside it (Sperm and an egg? - please!), but I can show you some of the many flaws in the theory of evolution.

If evolution was true though then how come we haven't found any fossils that are like half fish and half frog or something??

Up, up and away in my beautiful balloon!

This was Matts reply to my incest question :

You are getting into a whole new topic called Devolution. If natural selection is true, which i believe it is then each time we have kids, they lose genes from both parents.

This means that if there were ever two original humans which both evolutionists and creationists believe (otherwise we get into black's being lower down the evolutionary chain etc), then they must have had the genes for all races and creeds.

The more and more genes you lose down the generations, the worse it would be to have children with someone from the exact gene pool as you, because the child will lose genes without gaining any.

God does not allow incest anymore, that was stopped as soon as necessary, but for the first two humans who scientifically MUST have had more gene options, it was fine medically.

The way I see it, it has to be down to personal perception because both the creation and evolution arguments have their strong and their weak points.

Firstly my GCSE science hat will come on:

There is the whole big bang theory. A so-called collision of certain particles forming the earth we live in today (or at least as it was when it all began). However surely something must have already been present for these “particles” to be present suggesting some sort of “earth” being present already (although different to the earth we live on at present).

And also if this whole theory is so true, how come it took until 1927 for someone (Belgian priest Georges Lemaître) to mention it and claim it to be the case.

I do find it interesting that a priest – someone in a high standing religious position – was the first to suggest that theory.

On the other hand this theory does make some sense as it is clearly links the reasons why the distant galaxies are travelling away from us at high speeds. The theory also predicts the existence of cosmic background radiation (the glow left over from the explosion itself). The Big Bang Theory received its strongest confirmation when this radiation was discovered in 1964.

Now a little quote that I managed to dig out:

Now for my (admittedly limited) Religious hat:

From the religious side of things there is also some very valid points that creation by God was how the modern world was started (for want of a better word). However, as with the big bang theory, there are also ways that the argument suffers.

Many creationists believe the following 4 points (had to steal this as I have no knowledge really):

• Although there is plenty of evidence for adaptive changes in species (microevolution), we do not in recorded history see one species becoming an entirely different, more highly evolved organism. For example, we have no examples in recorded history of a fish becoming an amphibian or even a bacteria evolving into anything other than a bacteria.

• The fossil record does not show the gradual changes that Darwin predicted.

• There can be errors in carbon dating and other methods that are used to determine the age of fossils and the Earth itself.

• DNA and RNA comparisons between similar and dissimilar species at times confirm evolution, but in other circumstances are inconsistent.

These are all very good, and true points which work strongly for the creationists argument.

There are also reasons why creation may not have occurred, however, in that some of the theory contradicts a lot of the stuff the bible forbids.

The main issue that brings this argument up for me is the question of who Cain married. One of the chapters of the bible (don’t know exactly which bit) says that Cain had a wife who gave him a son. However this says to me that an incestuous relationship had occurred as the only other people on the earth at the time (the Bible’s words, not mine) were Adam, Eve and their children, meaning that Cain married his sister (the only logical answer).

Incest is something that the bible later condones.

In conclusion to this, I’m going to sit on the fence, I don’t know how the Earth began. Both theories have too many discrepancies to make them justifiable.

Can’t we just accept the world is here, rather than having to prove why? Just enjoy it for what it is.

(sorry for writing this like an essay, it was the easiest way for me to get my point across)

Edited by Danger (09 Jan 2005 7:57pm)

Edited by Danger (09 Jan 2005 7:57pm)

FFS MURRAY

It was always gonna happen one day

FFS MURRAY