Creation vs. Evolution Debate

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Bedge Croydon 09 Jan 05 9.16pm
Quote Danger at 09 Jan 2005 9:13pm Quote rach_d_cpfc at 09 Jan 2005 9:11pm Excellent post Nick, one of the most balanced and well thought out of this discussion. It was always gonna happen one day I never thought i would say this but i agree with Rach, that is a fantastic post by Nick, Didnt know you had it in you! Extran Orange energy drink, Europe's number one hangover cure! The Special One
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Bedge

Croydon 09 Jan 05 9.16pm

Quote Danger at 09 Jan 2005 9:13pm

Quote rach_d_cpfc at 09 Jan 2005 9:11pm

Excellent post Nick, one of the most balanced and well thought out of this discussion.

It was always gonna happen one day

I never thought i would say this but i agree with Rach, that is a fantastic post by Nick, Didnt know you had it in you!

Extran Orange energy drink, Europe's number one hangover cure!

The Special One

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Guntrisoft Beckenham, Kent 09 Jan 05 9.29pm
Good post Nick, and not one mention of Saucy-Minx Webmaster - The Holmesdale Online Follow the HOL on Twitter! [Link] and Facebook [Link]
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Guntrisoft

Beckenham, Kent 09 Jan 05 9.29pm

Good post Nick, and not one mention of Saucy-Minx

Webmaster - The Holmesdale Online
Follow the HOL on Twitter! [Link] and Facebook [Link]

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Danger Playa del Merstham 09 Jan 05 9.32pm
Quote Guntrisoft at 09 Jan 2005 9:29pm Good post Nick, and not one mention of Saucy-Minx Damn, I knew I forgot something! FFS MURRAY
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Danger

Playa del Merstham 09 Jan 05 9.32pm

Quote Guntrisoft at 09 Jan 2005 9:29pm

Good post Nick, and not one mention of Saucy-Minx

Damn, I knew I forgot something!

FFS MURRAY

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mattwebb Sutton 09 Jan 05 9.50pm
Quote Danger at 09 Jan 2005 7:56pm The main issue that brings this argument up for me is the question of who Cain married. One of the chapters of the bible (don’t know exactly which bit) says that Cain had a wife who gave him a son. However this says to me that an incestuous relationship had occurred as the only other people on the earth at the time (the Bible’s words, not mine) were Adam, Eve and their children, meaning that Cain married his sister (the only logical answer). Incest is something that the bible later condones. Danger I appreciate everything else you wrote, but because of my explanation above the following is actually the truth. God condoned, allowed incest when humans had more genes, ie they hadn't lost the recessive ones in reproduction, but it wasn't until later on when there was no NEED for sister and brother to reproduce, and also they were no longer at the top of the gene pool, because so many recessive genes had already been lost down the reproduction line, GOD then said YOU MAY NO LONGER MARRY YOUR SIBLING. It was absolutely no issue, like it would be today, at the beginning because of the genes. Edited by Penge Eagle (09 Jan 2005 10:26pm)
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mattwebb

Sutton 09 Jan 05 9.50pm

Quote Danger at 09 Jan 2005 7:56pm

The main issue that brings this argument up for me is the question of who Cain married. One of the chapters of the bible (don’t know exactly which bit) says that Cain had a wife who gave him a son. However this says to me that an incestuous relationship had occurred as the only other people on the earth at the time (the Bible’s words, not mine) were Adam, Eve and their children, meaning that Cain married his sister (the only logical answer).

Incest is something that the bible later condones.

Danger I appreciate everything else you wrote, but because of my explanation above the following is actually the truth.

God condoned, allowed incest when humans had more genes, ie they hadn't lost the recessive ones in reproduction, but it wasn't until later on when there was no NEED for sister and brother to reproduce, and also they were no longer at the top of the gene pool, because so many recessive genes had already been lost down the reproduction line, GOD then said YOU MAY NO LONGER MARRY YOUR SIBLING.

It was absolutely no issue, like it would be today, at the beginning because of the genes.

Edited by Penge Eagle (09 Jan 2005 10:26pm)

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ElliottHutchins Wakefield 09 Jan 05 11.43pm
Quote tetley at 09 Jan 2005 1:45pm and this brings us nicely back to the beginning of the thread. having read the entire thread again, there are not too many questions that have gone unanswered and there have beenvery interesting answers. i've learnt a lot about both sides of the argument. it is fairly obvious that both sides require a arge proportion of faith and that neither side holds all of the answers. however, if your belief makes you happy and suits you best then so be it. as long as you can then accept the views of others and hold a rational debate then there are no problems. so well done Rach for starting an interesting thread and thanks to all (but one) of the posters who have made this thread so interesting. Your blatantly talking about me. Im not posting on this thread again. Ive had enough abuse and preachyness. Take yer religion and shove it sideways. E Ex-HOL Preview Bod Prediction League - Runner Up 2003/04 HOL Cool Dude of the Season 2004/05 I was there - ElliottHutchins 19/12/2006 R.I.P. staffie & DJ Hardline
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ElliottHutchins

Wakefield 09 Jan 05 11.43pm

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Quote tetley at 09 Jan 2005 1:45pm

and this brings us nicely back to the beginning of the thread.

having read the entire thread again, there are not too many questions that have gone unanswered and there have beenvery interesting answers.

i've learnt a lot about both sides of the argument. it is fairly obvious that both sides require a arge proportion of faith and that neither side holds all of the answers.

however, if your belief makes you happy and suits you best then so be it. as long as you can then accept the views of others and hold a rational debate then there are no problems.

so well done Rach for starting an interesting thread and thanks to all (but one) of the posters who have made this thread so interesting.

Your blatantly talking about me. Im not posting on this thread again. Ive had enough abuse and preachyness. Take yer religion and shove it sideways.

Ex-HOL Preview Bod
Prediction League - Runner Up 2003/04
HOL Cool Dude of the Season 2004/05

I was there - ElliottHutchins 19/12/2006

R.I.P. staffie & DJ Hardline

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A_JsShorts 09 Jan 05 11.47pm
Elliott did I miss something?
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A_JsShorts 09 Jan 05 11.47pm

Elliott did I miss something?

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tetley Wimbledon 09 Jan 05 11.48pm
he has - because i'm not even slightly religious It's not the fall that's important.....it's the landing All Nature is but Art, unknown to thee; All Chance, Direction, which thou canst not see; All Discord, Harmony, not understood; All partial Evil, universal Good [Link]
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tetley

Wimbledon 09 Jan 05 11.48pm

he has - because i'm not even slightly religious

It's not the fall that's important.....it's the landing
All Nature is but Art, unknown to thee;
All Chance, Direction, which thou canst not see;
All Discord, Harmony, not understood;
All partial Evil, universal Good

[Link]

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ElliottHutchins Wakefield 09 Jan 05 11.48pm
Read back about 7 pages. Im going to bed Night E Ex-HOL Preview Bod Prediction League - Runner Up 2003/04 HOL Cool Dude of the Season 2004/05 I was there - ElliottHutchins 19/12/2006 R.I.P. staffie & DJ Hardline
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ElliottHutchins

Wakefield 09 Jan 05 11.48pm

Read back about 7 pages.

Im going to bed Night

Ex-HOL Preview Bod
Prediction League - Runner Up 2003/04
HOL Cool Dude of the Season 2004/05

I was there - ElliottHutchins 19/12/2006

R.I.P. staffie & DJ Hardline

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Penge Eagle Beckenham 10 Jan 05 12.26am
Quote tinkerbell85 at 09 Jan 2005 2:52pm I'm a Christian. Really good website for people who do want to look into the Christian faith is: [Link] I'll try and attempt to answer questions too but I'm not very good at it and get myself into a muddle! However, I believe: That Jesus was real, he existed, he performed miracles and he died so that we could all have eternal life in heaven. I believe in God as the creator of the world and all things in it. He created everything perfectly and we're the ones that spoilt it. I believe in the Holy Spirit as God's representative on earth. I believe that people can feel it's power. I believe the Bible is a book of truth and the fundamental points cannot be interpreted. I belive that all humans are sinful but we can be forgiven if we ask for it. I believe that we all have free will and that we have a choice in everything we do whether its a good or bad choice. I believe also that it's not God who's turned 'his' back on the world it's people that have turned their back on 'him'. I cannot believe that we are here by chance and that my life has no meaning but to exist and then die. The earth was created on the perfect angle for life to exist. That cannot be by chance surely?? By the way, I still have questions to ask. I'm not perfect. Edited by tinkerbell85 (09 Jan 2005 3:08pm) Edited by tinkerbell85 (09 Jan 2005 3:09pm) I'm not the religious type, and despise the people who try to force religion on you, but I believe in God and Tinkerbell sums up my views entirely. As a kid, stories from the Bible helped me to work out right from wrong. I would send my kids to a Catholic school because I think the religious grounding would stand them in good stead for the future. It's not ramming it down their throats and certainly does no harm. When they become old enough, it's up to them if they want to take religion more seriously. Respect to mattwebb for taking the time to put his points across over lots of posts in a sensible manner. As for the creation vs evolution debate, neither science nor religion is wrong. I studied A Level Theology and although I found it boring at the time (aged 16), the subject is more interesting today as I'm older. Must dig out my old books to refresh the memory! Edited by Penge Eagle (10 Jan 2005 12:33am)
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Penge Eagle

Beckenham 10 Jan 05 12.26am

Quote tinkerbell85 at 09 Jan 2005 2:52pm

I'm a Christian. Really good website for people who do want to look into the Christian faith is:

[Link]

I'll try and attempt to answer questions too but I'm not very good at it and get myself into a muddle! However, I believe:

That Jesus was real, he existed, he performed miracles and he died so that we could all have eternal life in heaven.

I believe in God as the creator of the world and all things in it. He created everything perfectly and we're the ones that spoilt it.

I believe in the Holy Spirit as God's representative on earth. I believe that people can feel it's power.

I believe the Bible is a book of truth and the fundamental points cannot be interpreted.

I belive that all humans are sinful but we can be forgiven if we ask for it.

I believe that we all have free will and that we have a choice in everything we do whether its a good or bad choice.

I believe also that it's not God who's turned 'his' back on the world it's people that have turned their back on 'him'.

I cannot believe that we are here by chance and that my life has no meaning but to exist and then die. The earth was created on the perfect angle for life to exist. That cannot be by chance surely??

By the way, I still have questions to ask. I'm not perfect.

Edited by tinkerbell85 (09 Jan 2005 3:08pm)

Edited by tinkerbell85 (09 Jan 2005 3:09pm)

I'm not the religious type, and despise the people who try to force religion on you, but I believe in God and Tinkerbell sums up my views entirely. As a kid, stories from the Bible helped me to work out right from wrong. I would send my kids to a Catholic school because I think the religious grounding would stand them in good stead for the future. It's not ramming it down their throats and certainly does no harm. When they become old enough, it's up to them if they want to take religion more seriously.

Respect to mattwebb for taking the time to put his points across over lots of posts in a sensible manner.

As for the creation vs evolution debate, neither science nor religion is wrong. I studied A Level Theology and although I found it boring at the time (aged 16), the subject is more interesting today as I'm older. Must dig out my old books to refresh the memory!

Edited by Penge Eagle (10 Jan 2005 12:33am)

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mattwebb Sutton 10 Jan 05 12.32am
Cheers mate; I really appreciate support, because I seem to be extremely out numbered.
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mattwebb

Sutton 10 Jan 05 12.32am

Cheers mate; I really appreciate support, because I seem to be extremely out numbered.

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Bean Ipswich 10 Jan 05 10.25am
Quote rach_d_cpfc at 09 Jan 2005 4:09pm Quote tinkerbell85 at 09 Jan 2005 2:52pm I'm a Christian. Really good website for people who do want to look into the Christian faith is: [Link] I'll try and attempt to answer questions too but I'm not very good at it and get myself into a muddle! However, I believe: That Jesus was real, he existed, he performed miracles and he died so that we could all have eternal life in heaven. I believe in God as the creator of the world and all things in it. He created everything perfectly and we're the ones that spoilt it. I believe in the Holy Spirit as God's representative on earth. I believe that people can feel it's power. I believe the Bible is a book of truth and the fundamental points cannot be interpreted. I belive that all humans are sinful but we can be forgiven if we ask for it. I believe that we all have free will and that we have a choice in everything we do whether its a good or bad choice. I believe also that it's not God who's turned 'his' back on the world it's people that have turned their back on 'him'. I cannot believe that we are here by chance and that my life has no meaning but to exist and then die. The earth was created on the perfect angle for life to exist. That cannot be by chance surely?? By the way, I still have questions to ask. I'm not perfect. Completely agree with all that Becky! A couple of people have mentioned about not having free-will any more if you're a Christian, but that's not true. Yes, there are rules to follow, but only ones that are there for our own good, and I can still choose to go against those rules. Think about a loving parent setting rules down for their child. The child may think the rules are completely unfair and are stopping all their fun, but the parent is only thinking of the best for the child. The child can disobey those rules - and the parent will still love them - but if a child loves and respects their parents they'll try their best to follow the rules. That's how it is with God and me. I try to do what I know God wants - and fail a lot - but know his love for me doesn't change whatever. But surely, the Your shall worship no other God than me is quite a big free will taking away statement as it immediately binds you into one way of thinking and behaving Boys are Studpid, Throw Rocks at Them........
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Bean

Ipswich 10 Jan 05 10.25am

Quote rach_d_cpfc at 09 Jan 2005 4:09pm