having your cake and eating it
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 Sedlescombe  Sedlescombe 27 Oct 16 1.26pm |
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Originally posted by carlonoil
You think it doesn't happen - with or without signs? That is an entirely different point The fact that some people steal things doesn't mean the Theft Act should be repealed
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| paperhat croydon 27 Oct 16 1.30pm |
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Originally posted by Sedlescombe
Tatchell is entitled to the his point of view but it is not the law and I hope it never becomes the law As for any business having the right to turn away anyone it likes. A Britain where signs can go up like "No Blacks, No Irish, No dogs" which we used to have in the UK is not a place I want to live. are you a Black, Irish dog owner by chance>?
Clinton is Clinton. I have known him for a long time, I know his mother... Simon Jordan |
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| npn Crowborough 27 Oct 16 1.31pm |
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Originally posted by Sedlescombe
You have to obey the law including though not restricted to anti discriminatory law? You can set up any number of scenarios which you can decide for yourself whether they breach existing legislation. For example I don't understand how the age of consent one applies? What laws does it breach other than good taste. I guess the obvious example would be to go into a gay bakery in England and request a cake with "make gay marriage illegal". They both request a change to existing laws in their respective countries, and both would be unpalatable to the proprietors regardless of the sexuality of the person making the order. My point has always been that the sexuality of the people requesting the cake was completely irrelevant - if I'd asked for the same cake (as a straight bloke) they wouldn't have liked it either, so nobody was discriminated against. Jamie's point on contract law may have had some bearing, if the bakery was sued for breach of contract, but they weren't. They were done under discrimination legislation, which just seems plain wrong. Incidentally, I have no problem with gay marriage - you could marry a horse for all the difference it makes to me!
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| paperhat croydon 27 Oct 16 1.33pm |
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Originally posted by npn
I guess the obvious example would be to go into a gay bakery in England and request a cake with "make gay marriage illegal". They both request a change to existing laws in their respective countries, and both would be unpalatable to the proprietors regardless of the sexuality of the person making the order. My point has always been that the sexuality of the people requesting the cake was completely irrelevant - if I'd asked for the same cake (as a straight bloke) they wouldn't have liked it either, so nobody was discriminated against. Jamie's point on contract law may have had some bearing, if the bakery was sued for breach of contract, but they weren't. They were done under discrimination legislation, which just seems plain wrong. Incidentally, I have no problem with gay marriage - you could marry a horse for all the difference it makes to me! i'm not a big fan of cakes tho
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| Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 27 Oct 16 1.36pm |
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Originally posted by paperhat
are you a Black, Irish dog owner by chance>?
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| npn Crowborough 27 Oct 16 1.37pm |
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Originally posted by paperhat
i'm not a big fan of cakes tho cakeophobe!
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| carlonoil Naples 27 Oct 16 1.39pm |
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Originally posted by npn
I guess the obvious example would be to go into a gay bakery in England and request a cake with "make gay marriage illegal". They both request a change to existing laws in their respective countries, and both would be unpalatable to the proprietors regardless of the sexuality of the person making the order. My point has always been that the sexuality of the people requesting the cake was completely irrelevant - if I'd asked for the same cake (as a straight bloke) they wouldn't have liked it either, so nobody was discriminated against. Jamie's point on contract law may have had some bearing, if the bakery was sued for breach of contract, but they weren't. They were done under discrimination legislation, which just seems plain wrong. Incidentally, I have no problem with gay marriage - you could marry a horse for all the difference it makes to me! Very well put, couldn't agree more. Of course the other irony is that the "make gay marriage illegal" slogan would be superfluous in Northern Ireland as it is illegal there! The Ashers are being persecuted for declining something that is not even legal in their region.
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| Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 27 Oct 16 1.41pm |
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Originally posted by npn
I guess the obvious example would be to go into a gay bakery in England and request a cake with "make gay marriage illegal". They both request a change to existing laws in their respective countries, and both would be unpalatable to the proprietors regardless of the sexuality of the person making the order. My point has always been that the sexuality of the people requesting the cake was completely irrelevant - if I'd asked for the same cake (as a straight bloke) they wouldn't have liked it either, so nobody was discriminated against. Jamie's point on contract law may have had some bearing, if the bakery was sued for breach of contract, but they weren't. They were done under discrimination legislation, which just seems plain wrong. Incidentally, I have no problem with gay marriage - you could marry a horse for all the difference it makes to me! They were done under discrimination legislation because that was the legislation they were in breach of, which seems appropriate. It is an interesting point if a straight couple going into the same shop would have been prosecuted in the same way - and I don't know the law well enough to answer that.
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| npn Crowborough 27 Oct 16 1.47pm |
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Originally posted by Sedlescombe
They were done under discrimination legislation because that was the legislation they were in breach of, which seems appropriate. It is an interesting point if a straight couple going into the same shop would have been prosecuted in the same way - and I don't know the law well enough to answer that. That part was simply to write off Jamie's assertions that they'd broken their contract with the client as irrelevant. Interestingly, it made me think, so I did a quick Google search and there are quite a number of pages and Facebook groups etc. of homosexuals who oppose gay marriage. I wonder what would have happened if on of those people had been the baker and refused the cake order?
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Oct 16 1.55pm |
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That the service it provides to the public is fair and within the law. This means that it must abide by UK trading laws, without exception.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Oct 16 2.03pm |
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Originally posted by carlonoil
So you can go into a Jewish owned bakery and say you want a cake with "the Holocaust was a lie" on it? Well the first would be illegal, as its directly anti-semetic and racist. The second could be refused on the basis that its promotion of a criminal act, but the third maybe - but hypothetically yes, provided they're a bakery, rather than a say a Jewish Bakery. A Jewish Bakery is different, in law, than a bakery that is owned by, or employs some, people who are Jewish - If you had a specific religious business - that clearly identified itself as such, then you might have a case. Even if they were a Christian Bakery, it would be problematic, possibly, as marriage is NOT a state of Christianity, but a state of in law, that can also have a Christian ceremony - Marriage is defined by law not religious views upon marriage - and as such is secular.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Oct 16 2.05pm |
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Originally posted by npn
That part was simply to write off Jamie's assertions that they'd broken their contract with the client as irrelevant. Interestingly, it made me think, so I did a quick Google search and there are quite a number of pages and Facebook groups etc. of homosexuals who oppose gay marriage. I wonder what would have happened if on of those people had been the baker and refused the cake order? It depends on whether it was because they were gay. But the same law applies.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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