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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 11 Oct 17 12.01pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The Nuclear family is a break down of the extended family - occurring largely from the post war period which saw increasing migration within the country based around work. Nuclear family consists of two primary adults, and children, usually distanced from their extended family, reducing the effectiveness of an extended family.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (11 Oct 2017 11.54am)

I read somewhere that humans are designed as a social tribal animal that tends to live in groups of between fifty to eighty.....the larger the group the greater the tendency for fracture and splitting into different tribes.

Humans have, in most cases, a core attachment to tribal behaviour.....something we see on here and mostly partake in to differing degrees.

It's not a negative or a particular positive, it's just an expression of human nature. That said the further we move away from objectivity the further away from reality we also go.

Obviously with tribalism the further into it we go the more the potential for negative results just as the lack of any tribalistic behaviour results in isolation and ineffectiveness.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Oct 2017 12.05pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 11 Oct 17 12.06pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Nope, you're just desperately looking for any and manufacturing.

Having grown up in Stockwell, I've no need for reinforcing echos of realities I'm quite aware of.

It's for people in positions of responsibility to promote ethical and healthy attitudes. You may disagree with what those are but that's, partly, what debate is for.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Oct 2017 11.53am)

Problem is that most people don't really understand ethics, and can be more inclined towards being pragmatic, especially where its successful. Criminal behaviour can fit into this, often successful criminals tend to see crime in the way that other people see work, a means to an end - and it can be their only real option for financial success when faced with an alternative of poor wages.

Whilst ethically this is wrong, from the point of reality of the individual, when they need to provide for others and improve their life, criminality may well be the best option of securing a better life for themselves and their family.

People involved in say drug trafficking on the high end scale, aren't typically drug users. They're in it for the money, like most people working - and often for them, it represented the best option for securing a living (i.e. its something they were good at or had a talent for, with a reasonable return). Most organised crime above the street level, is increasingly more like having a job admittedly with the risk of imprisonment, rather than redundancy of skills.

There is a very good example, who's author I forget, posits that in effect organised crime is essentially capitalism without the social rules, and that it follows very similar economic models, but just as the ultimate extreme of capitalism (market expansion, branding, market positioning, globalisation, takeovers etc are all played out, but with real life consequences, rather than financial ones)

But I'm digressing here. Essentially, if corporations were run by 'borderline sociopaths', they'd be crime cartels.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 11 Oct 17 12.13pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Problem is that most people don't really understand ethics, and can be more inclined towards being pragmatic, especially where its successful. Criminal behaviour can fit into this, often successful criminals tend to see crime in the way that other people see work, a means to an end - and it can be their only real option for financial success when faced with an alternative of poor wages.

Whilst ethically this is wrong, from the point of reality of the individual, when they need to provide for others and improve their life, criminality may well be the best option of securing a better life for themselves and their family.

People involved in say drug trafficking on the high end scale, aren't typically drug users. They're in it for the money, like most people working - and often for them, it represented the best option for securing a living (i.e. its something they were good at or had a talent for, with a reasonable return). Most organised crime above the street level, is increasingly more like having a job admittedly with the risk of imprisonment, rather than redundancy of skills.

There is a very good example, who's author I forget, posits that in effect organised crime is essentially capitalism without the social rules, and that it follows very similar economic models, but just as the ultimate extreme of capitalism (market expansion, branding, market positioning, globalisation, takeovers etc are all played out, but with real life consequences, rather than financial ones)

But I'm digressing here. Essentially, if corporations were run by 'borderline sociopaths', they'd be crime cartels.

We do differ in areas but you do write a lot of well thought out posts like this one here.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Southampton_Eagle's Profile Southampton_Eagle Flag At the after party 11 Oct 17 12.21pm Send a Private Message to Southampton_Eagle Add Southampton_Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Because children have the chance of a better upbringing with a mother and a father. They particularly need mothers.

Hasn't worked for you. You come across as an intolerant nasty piece of work.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 11 Oct 17 2.12pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Southampton_Eagle

Hasn't worked for you. You come across as an intolerant nasty piece of work.

What, and you're a nice tolerant person?

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 11 Oct 17 2.24pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

What, and you're a nice tolerant person?

So you don't disagree with his thoughts on hodgeheg?

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 11 Oct 17 2.26pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I read somewhere that humans are designed as a social tribal animal that tends to live in groups of between fifty to eighty.....the larger the group the greater the tendency for fracture and splitting into different tribes.

Humans have, in most cases, a core attachment to tribal behaviour.....something we see on here and mostly partake in to differing degrees.

It's not a negative or a particular positive, it's just an expression of human nature. That said the further we move away from objectivity the further away from reality we also go.

Obviously with tribalism the further into it we go the more the potential for negative results just as the lack of any tribalistic behaviour results in isolation and ineffectiveness.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Oct 2017 12.05pm)

Kind, although most people make assumptions about what tribal is, that aren't based in anthropology - Tribal behaviour is far more complex than people tend to assume (tribes don't tend to be isolationist - as its in their best interests to have interactions and relationships with other tribes). Tribes do come into conflict, but usually this is over resource scarcity - Its not uncommon for tribes to ally and intermarry (as it expands their genetic stock and tribal interests - the same behaviour is seen even in chimps).

Different tribes will usually only come into conflict over resources.

Terms like tribalism tend to be 'pop culture' references to behaviour than anthropological sound, used to justify certain behaviours, in truth tribal societies are usually quite far more open to outsiders who don't come tooled up for a fight.

Its also important to remember that most tribes in areas are probably off shoots of the existing tribe anyhow.

Like you said, at a certain size, it makes more sense for a tribe to split off, and become two tribes - they extend their reach, resources and influence, and increase their survival prospects.

The increasing hostility seen by westerners towards outsiders is probably more from the way colonialists interacted with tribes and took over land and treated the inhabitants, rather than the idea that tribal societies are openly hostile to outsiders. Most of the cases of Western explorers turning up result in them being welcomed initially (which makes sense, because small tribal societies need to trade with other tribes to function). Which isn't to say conflicts don't occur, they do, but they're not as common place as we tend to believe.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 11 Oct 17 2.27pm

Originally posted by Southampton_Eagle

Hasn't worked for you. You come across as an intolerant nasty piece of work.

Yes, but think how much more 'intolerant' and nasty I would be if it hadn't been for my mother.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 11 Oct 17 2.37pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Kind, although most people make assumptions about what tribal is, that aren't based in anthropology - Tribal behaviour is far more complex than people tend to assume (tribes don't tend to be isolationist - as its in their best interests to have interactions and relationships with other tribes). Tribes do come into conflict, but usually this is over resource scarcity - Its not uncommon for tribes to ally and intermarry (as it expands their genetic stock and tribal interests - the same behaviour is seen even in chimps).

Different tribes will usually only come into conflict over resources.

Terms like tribalism tend to be 'pop culture' references to behaviour than anthropological sound, used to justify certain behaviours, in truth tribal societies are usually quite far more open to outsiders who don't come tooled up for a fight.

Its also important to remember that most tribes in areas are probably off shoots of the existing tribe anyhow.

Like you said, at a certain size, it makes more sense for a tribe to split off, and become two tribes - they extend their reach, resources and influence, and increase their survival prospects.

The increasing hostility seen by westerners towards outsiders is probably more from the way colonialists interacted with tribes and took over land and treated the inhabitants, rather than the idea that tribal societies are openly hostile to outsiders. Most of the cases of Western explorers turning up result in them being welcomed initially (which makes sense, because small tribal societies need to trade with other tribes to function). Which isn't to say conflicts don't occur, they do, but they're not as common place as we tend to believe.

Interesting post....though I think you tend to focus more upon the positive aspects of natural tribal behaviour rather than the natural combative aspects.

Tribes interest with other tribes or outsiders where they feel it benefits. They also conflict with them for the same reason.

Conflicts don't just arise over resources but also over cultural differences....just like they do to lesser extents over ideas on a forum.

But the point being that tribes are just an expression of our behaviour as social beings (with exceptions).

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 11 Oct 17 2.38pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Yes, but think how much more 'intolerant' and nasty I would be if it hadn't been for my mother.

Nice one.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 11 Oct 17 2.51pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Yes, but think how much more 'intolerant' and nasty I would be if it hadn't been for my mother.

So an admission of your intolerence and nastiness.

Kudos for that.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 11 Oct 17 3.35pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

So an admission of your intolerence and nastiness.

Kudos for that.

When will you admit that you should use spell check?

And you a school teacher... Ex school teacher.

 

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