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ChrisGC Flag Wantage 26 Jan 19 6.31pm

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

Remainers want what is best for our country and don't feel Brexit is better for the future of our country, there's no evidence to suggest it is. The referendum was not a competition of winners and losers, and to suggest it is the be all and end all is simply childish

Or more objectively:

'Remainers' believe in staying in the EU.
The vote result came up with a leave majority.

Some remainers wish to rerun the vote in the hope it will come up with a remain majority.

This is no evidence to support this supposition.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 26 Jan 19 6.43pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

I keep reading the term
'Snouts in the trough' and looking after themselves and their future.
That is very disingenuous and if that is how it appears why vote?
A small amount might be like this but not a great majority.
Many were very rich in their own right before this vote and brexit in or out will not affect them.

 

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View Tickled pink's Profile Tickled pink Flag Cornwall 26 Jan 19 7.10pm Send a Private Message to Tickled pink Add Tickled pink as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Or more objectively:

'Remainers' believe in staying in the EU.
The vote result came up with a leave majority.

Some remainers wish to rerun the vote in the hope it will come up with a remain majority.

This is no evidence to support this supposition.

The only reason the leavers don't wan't another vote is because the information we were all fed before the 23rd June vote was as we all now understand very misleading and confusing, with the information as we now understand it to be why is anyone upset about having another democratic say, people who want to leave can still say so and people who want to stay can do the same too, the only reason leavers are crying is because they know for sure that the vote will not go their way with the correct information.

As it is now anyway the chances of us leaving is practically zero.

 

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View Penge Eagle's Profile Penge Eagle Flag Beckenham 26 Jan 19 7.15pm Send a Private Message to Penge Eagle Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Penge Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Tickled pink

The only reason the leavers don't wan't another vote is because the information we were all fed before the 23rd June vote was as we all now understand very misleading and confusing, with the information as we now understand it to be why is anyone upset about having another democratic say, people who want to leave can still say so and people who want to stay can do the same too, the only reason leavers are crying is because they know for sure that the vote will not go their way with the correct information.

As it is now anyway the chances of us leaving is practically zero.

Rubbish. Put aside the NHS slogan on the bus (which can be justified), what examples of misleading information was there?

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 26 Jan 19 7.17pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by steve1984

It's really depressing that after all this time, people still don't understand how a representative democracy functions.

MPs are not under any legal or constitutional obligation to honour the result of the referendum. That is not how it works and it never has.

Yes they are, I believe they passed the act into law.

Now they are legally obligated....the law would have to change otherwise.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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ChrisGC Flag Wantage 26 Jan 19 7.23pm

Originally posted by Tickled pink

The only reason the leavers don't wan't another vote is because the information we were all fed before the 23rd June vote was as we all now understand very misleading and confusing, with the information as we now understand it to be why is anyone upset about having another democratic say, people who want to leave can still say so and people who want to stay can do the same too, the only reason leavers are crying is because they know for sure that the vote will not go their way with the correct information.

As it is now anyway the chances of us leaving is practically zero.

Would you change the way you voted? No.

Don't kid yourself that anyone else would either.

Like every vote in history the information to make a considered choice was in the public domain and as ever there were those who sought it, and those who didn't: on both sides.

"You were lied to" is the pinnacle of pot calling the kettle black. You honestly trust the word of politicians and the media on the remain side? Anybody basing their vote on the say so of Blair and Campbell, or Farage and Bojo, are representative of those who cast from a position of naïvety: given the record turnout, you will always get a healthy cross section of this demographic no matter how many times you run the process. I add, with all sincerity, that these votes are as equally valid as those from people who may feel more "in the know". Every vote cast is subjective and the owner of it entitled to respect.

I do agree that there is no chance of us leaving now, but that's the will of the political elite: no matter your position, this inability/unwillingness to steadfastly implement a promise is of concern to us all. I, for one, still believe in us and them, no matter your stance on Brexit, and will always be on the side of us.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 26 Jan 19 7.29pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Reference your definition, here's mine:

[Link]

I believe you said something about admitting when you're wrong just before you incorrectly challenged someone else's post....

Edited by ChrisGC (26 Jan 2019 4.50pm)

There are many references which confirm what I am saying. Yours is merely a summary of a MPs daily work. Try this from the same site, which is an actual description of the long established principle first enumerated by Edmund Burke:- [Link]

 


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ChrisGC Flag Wantage 26 Jan 19 7.40pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

There are many references which confirm what I am saying. Yours is merely a summary of a MPs daily work. Try this from the same site, which is an actual description of the long established principle first enumerated by Edmund Burke:- [Link]

Correct, it is. So where's that recognition that you're wrong?

You've presented a link to a report from a select committee, this isn't a definition. They've referenced a famous quotation that many MP's use as a standard: subjectively, incorrectly and the suit their own agenda.

Your own link concludes the role as:

supporting their party in votes in Parliament (furnishing and maintaining the Government and Opposition);
representing and furthering the interests of their constituency;
representing individual constituents and taking up their problems and grievances;

scrutinising and holding the Government to account and monitoring, stimulating and challenging the Executive;
initiating, reviewing and amending legislation; and
contributing to the development of policy whether in the Chamber, Committees or party structures and promoting public understanding of party policies.

I don't know how we can go much further with this: you are clearly wrong.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 26 Jan 19 7.43pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I'm not sure what more there is to add. I will say that essentially what you state could easily be used as an argument for dictatorship.

What's the point of votes if they can be ignored?.....What you say about parliamentary freedom is valid...but it's up to a point......Especially so...and it's very pertinent in this case....Especially so when the country was told specifically that their wishes would be carried out.

The parliament recognised this when they voted...first to have the referendum and then to carry out Brexit.


Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Jan 2019 5.05pm)

Of course it's not an argument for dictatorship. That is just a ridiculous idea. We have a Parliamentary democracy. We choose our MPs. They take the decisions they feel are in our best interests. Then if we don't like what the result is we change them. Dictators don't allow themselves to be voted out every 5 years or if a majority of their colleagues decide they have no confidence in them!

Parliament decided to respect the referendum and passed the appropriate legislation. Parliament can decide it was a mistake and repeal the legislation. Parliament can also decide that their promise was binding and carry on. The latter appears to be May's position but whether it remains the majority view in our Parliament is yet to be determined.

 


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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 26 Jan 19 7.58pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Correct, it is. So where's that recognition that you're wrong?

You've presented a link to a report from a select committee, this isn't a definition. They've referenced a famous quotation that many MP's use as a standard: subjectively, incorrectly and the suit their own agenda.

Your own link concludes the role as:

supporting their party in votes in Parliament (furnishing and maintaining the Government and Opposition);
representing and furthering the interests of their constituency;
representing individual constituents and taking up their problems and grievances;

scrutinising and holding the Government to account and monitoring, stimulating and challenging the Executive;
initiating, reviewing and amending legislation; and
contributing to the development of policy whether in the Chamber, Committees or party structures and promoting public understanding of party policies.

I don't know how we can go much further with this: you are clearly wrong.

You are a stubborn man. The select committee is an official part of Parliament. It is cross party and to suggest it presents "subjective" statements is just wrong. The first paragraph I referenced is a summary of Burke's principle, which is universally accepted as the way our Parliament works. You cannot make it no so just because you wish it wasn't so. The following paragraph's, which you quote, are merely another summary of their daily duties, albeit expressed in a more detailed way than the link you provided. Your link is, I suspect, intended, as a simple summary for students whilst mine is from an official Parliamentary report.

I suggest you discuss this with your own MP, if you still don't believe me.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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steve1984 26 Jan 19 8.06pm

Originally posted by Penge Eagle

Rubbish. Put aside the NHS slogan on the bus (which can be justified), what examples of misleading information was there?

Negotiating a free trade deal with EU will be very easy comes to mind.

 

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ChrisGC Flag Wantage 26 Jan 19 8.07pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You are a stubborn man. The select committee is an official part of Parliament. It is cross party and to suggest it presents "subjective" statements is just wrong. The first paragraph I referenced is a summary of Burke's principle, which is universally accepted as the way our Parliament works. You cannot make it no so just because you wish it wasn't so. The following paragraph's, which you quote, are merely another summary of their daily duties, albeit expressed in a more detailed way than the link you provided. Your link is, I suspect, intended, as a simple summary for students whilst mine is from an official Parliamentary report.

I suggest you discuss this with your own MP, if you still don't believe me.

You must have quite a draft coming in from that glass ceiling...

As for the thinly veiled "my link is better than your link" line?

You reveal yourself.

There's no harm in being wrong pal, you said you had no problem with being proved so, when clearly you do. Take care my friend.

 

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